Nursing U's Podcast

Ep #013 - From Trauma to Triumph: A Nurse's Narrative

• Nursing U • Season 1 • Episode 13

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Witness the transformative power of storytelling as we explore the world of nursing through a unique lens. Picture this: the serene beauty of Kansas sunsets juxtaposed with the emotional turmoil faced by nurses dealing with trauma. Join Julie and Caleb, along with their friend Christeena, a fellow nurse, as they share deeply personal stories and insights that challenge conventional notions of caregiving. Together, we navigate the intricate dynamics between healthcare professionals and their patients, all while introducing a blend of diverse perspectives from philosophy to art.

Christeena opens up about her journey of resilience, discussing how personal histories and the systemic challenges within healthcare can amplify the emotional struggles nurses face. Her candid recount of battling PTSD after a traumatic incident in 2019 provides a poignant backdrop for a broader conversation on mental health awareness and support in caregiving professions. Our discussion sheds light on the historical shift in caregiving responsibilities and how this has led to profound challenges in maintaining a healthy balance between professional and personal life.

From the emotional exhaustion of high-stress nursing environments to the groundbreaking impact of innovative treatments like ketamine therapy, we cover the spectrum of nursing challenges and triumphs. Our dialogue not only focuses on the importance of self-care and professional autonomy but also emphasizes the power of community and ongoing conversation. As we wrap up, we express gratitude for our listeners and encourage them to continue engaging with us, fostering curiosity and connection as we collectively strive for a healthier world.

 If you're struggling, please know you're not alone, and there’s help available 24/7. Dial 988, the national Suicide & Crisis Lifeline. Trained professionals are there to listen, provide support, and guide you through difficult times. Whether you're dealing with anxiety, depression, or just need someone to talk to, reaching out can be the first step toward feeling better. Remember, help is just a call away at 988. 

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Speaker 1:

Hi, I'm.

Speaker 2:

Julie and I'm Caleb. Welcome to Nursing U, the podcast where we redefine nursing in today's healthcare landscape. Join Julie and I as we step outside the box on an unconventional healing journey.

Speaker 3:

Together we're diving deep into the heart of nursing, exploring the intricate relationships between caregivers and patients with sincerity and depth.

Speaker 2:

Our mission is to create an open and collaborative experience where learning is expansive and fun.

Speaker 1:

From the psychological impacts of nursing to the larger implications on the healthcare system.

Speaker 3:

We're sparking conversation that lead to healing and innovation.

Speaker 2:

We have serious experience and we won't pull our punches. But we'll also weave in some humor along the way, because we all know laughter is often the best medicine.

Speaker 3:

It is, and we won't shy away from any topic, taboo or not, from violence and drugs to family and love, we're tackling it all.

Speaker 2:

Our nursing knowledge is our base, but we'll be bringing insights from philosophy, religion, science and art to deepen our understanding of the human experience.

Speaker 3:

So, whether you're a nurse, a healthcare professional or just someone curious about the world of caregiving, this podcast is for you.

Speaker 2:

One last thing, a quick disclaimer before we dive in. While we're both registered nurses, nothing we discuss here should be taken as medical advice. Always consult with your physician or qualified healthcare provider for any medical concerns you may have. The views expressed here are our own and don't necessarily reflect those of our employers or licensing bodies.

Speaker 3:

So let's get started on this journey together. Welcome to Nursing U, where every conversation leads to a healthier world.

Speaker 2:

Okay, here we go.

Speaker 3:

Here we are again. It's always fun. I got my KU shirt on today. I'm a Kansas girl, so although I grew up in Nebraska, I root for all Kansas teams. So I like KU. I also like K-State and I like the Chiefs, so I have a little bit of both.

Speaker 2:

but today, I decided to wear my KU shirt.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I'm definitely a Kansas guy. Grew up in the center center of central Kansas, central Western Kansas. All my family's from Western Kansas and all my best childhood memories happen on the farm out in Western Kansas. So definitely a Kansas guy. One of the funny things when I joined the Marines and I went to Hawaii when I got to Hawaii because my experience in Kansas was as a child was that I was surrounded by a sea of wheat. It was just like an ocean and when the wind would blow it created waves in the wheat and it was literally wheat as far as the eye could see. And when I landed in Hawaii and the ocean was so big, I was like this is what Kansas is like, only it's water instead of wheat. It was very surreal to make that connection because they're so opposite. But how could Hawaii? Yeah, it was like the little farm that my grandparents had was like an island in a sea of wheat.

Speaker 1:

That was interesting. Yeah, I'm a Kansas guy. Yeah, in a sea of wheat.

Speaker 2:

That was interesting.

Speaker 1:

I'm a Kansas guy.

Speaker 2:

And Kansas sunsets are prettier.

Speaker 3:

Oh yes.

Speaker 2:

There's nothing like Kansas sunsets.

Speaker 3:

And we live on a hill and our front porch, which I love, sitting out on faces west, and so I mean sometimes we'll time dinner so we can be out there.

Speaker 2:

Oh yeah.

Speaker 3:

Oh yeah, there's nothing better, Nothing better, Nothing better. And you know those weird people who watch the sun. I now am one of the weird people. And guess what I joined a Facebook group, Kansas Sunsets.

Speaker 2:

Oh, no way, that's hilarious.

Speaker 1:

There's a lot of people.

Speaker 3:

in them there's hundreds of people post.

Speaker 2:

I just don't think people can realize how beautiful Kansas is. They think it's a flyover state. They drive through. If the only thing that you're seeing is I-70, you haven't seen it. You haven't seen anything.

Speaker 2:

It's funny, we're pimping Kansas but we are One of my favorite favorite things out by my grandparents' farm there's something called Cheyenne Bottoms. If you've never been to Cheyenne Bottoms, it is surreal, because it's the largest inland water reserve in North America and so pelicans migrate to Kansas to lay their eggs and hatch the next generation. So when you're out there, like as a child, I remember seeing all these white pelicans like literally truly every inch of water covered. I've been out there when there were so many pelicans and snow geese that you couldn't see the sun. It was covered and you had to speak loud. You had to speak up because it was so loud. The squawking and noises. It's incredible loud. Uh, the squawking and and and noises. It's incredible. You can get on the. You can get on the website and um and find when the migratory birds are. Are there. So if you're listening to this from somewhere far away and you've never been to kansas, go to cheyenne bottoms. It's incredible. That's my Kansas plug.

Speaker 3:

Visitor center.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so we're bringing on a friend, christina, to talk about her career and experience of nursing and life and trauma and to hear how she has healed herself, so that others can benefit from the journey that she's been on. Julie, you worked with her.

Speaker 3:

Tell us a little bit about her. Talking to her before this, I didn't realize that she only worked there for such a year and a half or whatever. I thought she'd been there forever. She was one of those nurses who probably was immediately put in charge on the unit, probably was immediately put in charge on the unit and I, I think at that time I was maybe, like, I think we decided to call it some kind of critical care resource or something. So I my, you know, background is mostly ICU and so I would this this role, cause I went to day shift in 2018 in like in January 2018. And I think that's when I started this role.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and we'll go between ICU, ccu and the ER. So, um, like, like the ICU step-down unit and that unit was it's hard to even put words around that unit. It was tons of admits, tons of discharge. You know the, the step downs from the icu who might be fine, like they may be fine, but they still on drips and right they might have been transferred early for staffing purposes or you know they needed the bed in ICU.

Speaker 3:

So like he's the least amount sick, so he'll go there. Um, you know, and and they, you still had four, four tried to have maybe three, but usually four and sometimes five with all the discharges. They took all the patients in the cath lab. It was just an insanely high acuity, very, very busy unit. And but Christina was you can just pick those nurses out you like top quality, top quality, smart. You know it took a lot to be able to be the charge nurse of that unit and run that unit efficiently while taking care of your own patients. It was not a free charge and so I would always try to get her to come to ICU. I'm like you should go to ICU, you would be good over there, but anyway, so you know, obviously we clicked and worked together for it.

Speaker 3:

It seemed like way longer, but it was just that short amount of time and I've kind of watched her over the years through Facebook and different things, do all the different things that she's done. You know she went to New York when it was in COVID and that was super interesting, was in COVID and that was super interesting. She kind of, you know, shared her journey and then she went to EMT and then she was a flight. You know, she did the flights for a while and posted about that and I just thought, god, I mean, she's just amazing. You know, she's doing so great. And then she posted something on Facebook, like a little while ago, that she actually suffered from PTSD and had kind of a breakdown, as we all seem to have. And I reached out to her and was like I had no idea and so let's talk about it. So because, as we've said before, sharing stories is very healing and telling the story is also very healing.

Speaker 3:

Being able to recognize yourself in someone else can be the awareness that you need to start stepping out of the usual that you're doing, or even bring an awareness that maybe that's what's going on with me, um, and so you know, I think Caleb and I love to talk and and um have a lot to talk about, but when we find someone we just like we need the story, we need to have you on and have a story. So we're going to have her on and tell her story and just talk a little bit about just more. More about PTSD and and because it manifests itself differently in everybody. It's not going to look the same and, um, you know, just hoping that people listening, or maybe you know somebody who is, um, not quite right or like you notice something's off, or you know, as a nurse I mean, there's a lot of suffering, silent suffering with PTSD in nursing and it can come out through incidents in the nursing field.

Speaker 3:

So if you have a lot of, you know you come from a traumatic childhood or, um, you know, just unsteady, uh, sometimes that's what draws us to be a nurse. And so then there are times that in the nursing career things happen that you would never guess. That that's where the tipping point is and, um, I think talking about it is is most most helpful for healing and awareness.

Speaker 3:

So we'll bring christina on welcome hi, I'm so glad to be here and talk about this it's so interesting because, like I was saying, you think I'm like, oh my god, like she, she is a fucking rock star, like I knew it from the beginning. And then all that you've done and you know, you documented, you know, yes, we only see so much on the outside on facebook, but, um, just to be able to do that and to get yourself to move through that and to figure it out and learn and learn and learn, you know was amazing. And then when I I saw what you posted and I was like, oh my God, see, see, it's it just?

Speaker 2:

I just don't think you can be in any modern care setting and not be traumatized. And that goes back to the thing that I've said so many times, that we are siloed, that 100 years ago institutional medicine was just starting. Before that, everyone took care of their loved ones on the couch or on the kitchen table or on the floor, and they shared the weight of caregiving and the suffering that goes along with it and the death. And so all of us health care workers are taking on all of that weight for society and it isolates us. It creates the barrier of understanding that all these people around us can't understand. You know the experience of somebody bleeding out or dying in some terrible way. We carry all of that burden.

Speaker 4:

So there's no healthcare provider that is alive, caring for people today that doesn't carry trauma right, I agree because it's sick people you know, we're not caring for them because they're, they're healthy and great, and we're just like oh hey, you know, let's, let's go play disc golf or something. They're sick and and they need help.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, how do you shift gears to go from that sick person to disc golf and remain human, and remain human.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I think that's where the learning is, that's where the understanding of how that manifests within and how we can kind of start to undo a little bit of that so that we can we don't have to disassociate to go play this golf, we can be present and do the caring, and then we can also be present and go play this golf, you know.

Speaker 4:

I think it's a. It's a, it's a balance that nobody teaches you, and in nursing school, they it's all about the patient and and doing your best and giving 110%, which is it? But and maybe now they're starting to say, hey, you know, these are some of the things to look out for in yourself and to keep the balance, but nobody teaches us how to to have both how to have a life and take care of other people's lives.

Speaker 3:

That is very true. We've talked about it and it feel, it makes us feel like it's such a big thing and how do we fix it? And how do we do that? Because we're fixers. But I think, just having the conversations and telling stories little bit by little, bit by little bit, and being vulnerable to tell our story because it is, nobody really talks about it until you're able, and then even that you're like, well, you know, that's just how it is, and to hear it is healing and so you know even little nursing school students, you know it, it all matters. And to bring more awareness to it and I don't know if we'll ever get nursing schools just change their you know, academic agenda, you know, don't they have to, don't, don't we have to.

Speaker 2:

I mean, we've talked about that, like the you know COVID was, was was the foothills of of of the mountain that is baby boom generation.

Speaker 2:

That that we just experienced, you know, a little bit of turbulence in comparison to, to the volume of death that is really on the horizon for America and or the world. I mean the baby boom generation wasn't just in America, I think it's worldwide. I mean, the population explosion is everywhere and so many of our patient populations are propped up on medicines that would that are extending their lives. And you know, we are nurses, are coming in from nursing school, working for one to two years and peeling off and go either going to grad school or leaving the bedside entirely. And then you have our generation that's been caring for people for 20 years and we're peeling off and saying this is an abusive relationship, I don't want to be a part of it anymore and so we're just leaving. So who's going to be taking care of them? Like, I don't think there's any way around the institutions absolutely having to shift gears and do something different. I think if there's any hope for our healthcare, it has to happen.

Speaker 3:

Well, maybe just through awareness that it just will bleed into that Maybe.

Speaker 1:

Why don't you, Christina, just tell us?

Speaker 3:

a little bit about how you got into nursing and and kind of your why and what, what drew you and and where? Kind of just start, start, start us off there.

Speaker 4:

So I actually didn't go to nursing school until I was 31. And it was. I wanted to be a paramedic for a long time and then I met an army boy and we had children, and then I was a stay at home mom and then, unfortunately, I was the uh, the villain in the story of the, the divorce to come, and so you know, and that was looking back, it was uh, I had so much trauma, I wasn't allowing love and healthy relationships. So, um, it was an easy divorce. We were still friends afterwards. But I was like I need a career. And my aunt at the time she was a nurse, had been an LPN for a while. So I was like you know, I'm a fixer, I'm a caregiver, I'm going to do that. So did that. And while I was in nursing school I remember saying man, I want to be in the helicopters. I don't want to, I want to do that job, because I was a volunteer firefighter and I helped land a helicopter in a cow field.

Speaker 4:

And I was like whoa, that's awesome, like I, I want to do that and so that that piece in nursing school comes later in my journey of healing. And so I I went to nursing school and first I got my LPN, worked in the ER as I was getting my RN, and then I went straight to the PCU. So we had open hearts and all the step down cardiac sick people or you know, people that were just needed procedures and go home, and I fell in love with the heart and the cardiac realm. And then I wanted something bigger than North Central Kansas and so I came to Kansas City and I did.

Speaker 4:

I've done corrections and psych, pcu, icu, ccu, er all trauma based responses Now looking back, and then based responses, now looking back. And then I was just I'm going to save the world, I'm going to fix people and be the best that I can be. And then some things started happening and there was a big incident in 19. So I went to school in 14 and I graduated my RN in the beginning of 16. And in 19 is when an incident happened and I broke. I just couldn't take anymore.

Speaker 4:

And so then I dove into healing and I'm like I have to get better, I have to fix this. Like, what can I do? And that was not linear. And then what did that look?

Speaker 2:

like which part? What did that look like which part? Well, like when you dove into healing. What does it mean? You dove into healing. What?

Speaker 4:

did that part of the journey look like? So when the incident in 19 happened, I reached out to my psychiatrist and I was just like something is really wrong and he told me you have PTSD. I mean, I went to his office, talked to him and he was like I told him the incident and then he said you have PTSD, you're not allowed to work. And so I wasn't allowed to work. And I was, you know, a single mom with shared custody and I had to get better. And so I looked into all the resources. I tried to use FMLA, term and long term through the hospital I worked at. But they said they couldn't give me my short term because ptsd is the same as depression and so you had depression before. So we're not going to pay you oh my god, um.

Speaker 4:

So I looked into resources. Um, I did emdr, I taught therapy, cbd, neurofeedback, and I just was like I have to get better and I cashed out my 401k because I didn't have any money and I started making these appointments and reaching out to nonprofits to help me, and and so for three months I was out of work and for those three months I was just researching and pouring everything into getting better to be able to work again.

Speaker 3:

Did you have a lot of response from people that you reached out to that would that, that would help you, that helped you, or or gave you resources or what? What was the response like to that?

Speaker 4:

um, at first I immediately I think I had heard about emdr, and so I researched how to get into that.

Speaker 3:

Just explain explain what EMDR is. Just for some people. No.

Speaker 4:

Um, I gosh it was. Is it like electro? I don't remember what it's called.

Speaker 1:

Magnetic here I'll look it up, I'll look it up.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it does stand for something. But was it a place or was it? Is it a? It's a type of therapy, right?

Speaker 4:

yeah, type of therapy okay, and I honestly don't remember, because at that time I was just in survival mode right.

Speaker 2:

It says emdr stands for eye movement, desensitization and reprocessing. Says it's a type of psychotherapy that helps people heal from trauma and other distressing experiences. Let me see if I can find anything else. So it says it's a structured therapy that encourages the patient to briefly focus on the trauma memory while simultaneously experiencing bilateral, bilateral stimulation, typically eye movement, which is associated with a reduction in the vividness and emotion associated with the trauma memories.

Speaker 4:

Oh, that's fascinating because it's like these, um, like things in my hand and there's like lights on the top of them, and so they would go back and forth like this, light would light and this would like it would.

Speaker 4:

Just it would go back and forth. And we talked about um, a traumatic event that happened way, way in my past, and she told me this may rattle the cage. And I was like what does that mean? And she goes well, it's like a spider web. You have all this stuff in there and so this might shake it out, and so stuff might kind of fall through and fall out. And I'm like okay, and so I did the one session with her.

Speaker 4:

And then two days later I was talking to a friend of mine and I was telling him what happened at the hospital, the incident, and he just had one line that said don't you have VA benefits? And at that moment the cage was rattled and a terrible traumatic incident that happened 17 years prior in the Marine Corps all came back at once and my brain had hid it from me for 17 years. And so, on top of just being diagnosed with PTSD, now I have this huge life altering trauma that I didn't know I had for so long come in and I was like, oh, I don't want to do emdr anymore. That's not okay, um, but it needed to come out at the time. I didn't need it to or want it to um. So then I, um, I reached out to some nonprofits through the veteran scope and so then they got. They helped me with other nonprofits going that way.

Speaker 4:

And so I was just reaching. I was drowning. I knew I needed to help myself. I didn't know where to go, what to do myself. I didn't know where to go what to do, and so I was researching and reaching out and scheduling appointments and just whatever I could.

Speaker 3:

Kind of like how you nursed and you were doing it, you were fixing all of the things and you know, going to the scene and realizing that like this, this, this and this, and you prioritize and you, I mean you were doing that for yourself, really, without you even knowing.

Speaker 4:

Very new territory.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 4:

For sure a new territory, yeah for sure. And uh, I started to get better and I started going to the va and processing that stuff and and medications and and therapy, talk, therapy um, and I was, I was doing pretty good, I was. There's still a lot there that needed to be fixed, but the the breakdown didn't come just overnight. So the incident happened in January, but it wasn't until May where I was like, oh, something's not right. And then I was like I was checked out. And well, my psychiatrist checked me out. He was like you're done for now, and so for three months I just was doing anything and everything that I could.

Speaker 4:

And then after that I got the okay to go back to work and I chose to go work at a psych hospital and it was a six week contract and I was like, all right, I can do anything for six weeks, right, and I can relate to these people for six weeks, right, and I can relate to these people. So I mean, maybe I can get some extra therapy on top of you know, and I did. And then I transitioned over to the Valor Unit and that they do therapies for first responders and vets and man the what I got out of it as well was just incredible, and I was able to teach group therapies and and tools and stuff, and that's exactly where I needed to be.

Speaker 4:

It was hard going back to work, my anxiety, um, I was sensitive, um so I still had like these symptoms and stuff and well, can can you kind of explain what that means?

Speaker 2:

you were sensitive because I also experienced a deeper sensation of sensitivity, like in my skin, in my, in my body. I was more sensitive. What was that for you?

Speaker 4:

um, so the lingering side effects or the symptoms of from the incident carried through, but they just kind of got less. So when I went back to work, I was still very protective of my patients and very territorial, and I was still crying very easily and very when something wasn't right. I'm just like sound the horn, the alarms. This patient is not getting the treatment that they need. This, you know, for whatever reason. Know, nope, not every nurse. Nurse is the same. So that's another thing that I had to realize like, um, but uh, I just was. Every patient was like a family member and and I took offense when they weren't being cared for like the way that they should be, and so I'm like this is not right.

Speaker 3:

I think nurses can. That is familiar and because we, a lot of us, put our heart and soul into it, because we, a lot of us, put our heart and soul into it. It does feel like it's a personal attack when you're not getting what you need and there are so many barriers to getting what you need for the patients, and that in and of itself is damaging. That causes stress and anxiety, because should you tell the nurse not to be like that? We are like that, and so when you're not getting in a timely manner, you're not getting the answer you need, you're not getting the supplies that you need, you're not getting the IV quick enough, you don't get the pharmacy. Nobody understands how fucking quick you need it. That that mixed with your patient who's probably crashing what do we do with that? Where does that go? That is trauma, that is moral injury Moral yep Yep.

Speaker 3:

That is what that is, and what do you have?

Speaker 2:

So it also goes back to the idea of Piaget, the object permanence. Christina, have you listened to that episode yet where we talk about Piaget? Do you remember Piaget from nursing school? No, actually, life cycle development theory of Piaget. He says that infants, when they drop the binky, they cry because they believe that it no longer exists. That's his theory. And so when the mom acculturates the child, that the binky is going to come back, it establishes object permanence. So the child eventually comes to believe that even though it can't see the object, it still exists. So it establishes object permanence. And one of the things that I realized in my experience, in the many deaths that I experienced or that we experienced, is that it, it under undermines object permanence. That we have, like PTSD, is an adult regression of object permanence that are. The world that we're experiencing is shattered because all these lives keep just falling off in front of us and so we, nothing like the idea that things can exist in long format is eroded.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And I know the brain doesn't know what to do with that.

Speaker 2:

So when you hyperfixate on, oh, this patient isn't getting what they want, what you're responding to, and in in my kind of working through the, the ideas here, the caleb's mental workshop, yeah, uh, what, what you're doing is, um, trying to keep object permanence, like I, I, I have to, I have to take control of this, because it's gonna, it's going to run away from me, the object isn't going to exist anymore. So we hyper fixate, we develop OCD, we do all these efforts to keep things stable and we're in a very unstable environment. So, and then that's when you lose, you lose control, you lose hope and that's PTSD. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

It makes perfect sense because you're trying to, your mind is out of control, even though you don't recognize that, because you're very functioning and all of these qualities, all of these personality, you know, characteristics are, on one hand, very good because you're a very good nurse, and that is very important. We are saving lives and we are smart, we know what needs to be done. But yet it's in that and in those behaviors that is the maladaptive behavior trying to protect us and you never know when it's going to just go off the rails. You never know what event it's going to be. You know you could have had that same event at the time at any other time.

Speaker 2:

And maybe it's fine yeah.

Speaker 3:

Just a rough day, like you know. He, he died, I mean he died. And then I got another admit.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it was Tuesday. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3:

And I have five other admit. Yeah, it was Tuesday, yeah, yeah, and I have five other admits, so it's. I think what I want people to understand is you can't relate the incident because it's not the incident.

Speaker 2:

It's not the one thing.

Speaker 3:

It's the timing. It's the timing of it and what you were feeling and how you were nursing around that, and so I think it's very important for you to talk even more about how you were and what that looked like in the way you nursed, because it's very hard, because it's people and, like, like I said, you can just tell. You can tell those nurses, they are smart, they know what to do, they can call, they can manage. You know we're managers, we're managers of trauma, because we have so much trauma within ourselves that we've had to manage. So you're very smart in doing that. And it's really interesting to think of some of those nurses who you deem as, like she's got shit going on, you know, and but really the reason that they're like that is probably because they're managing a lot of their own trauma.

Speaker 4:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4:

Up until that incident I was. I thought I was doing great. You know, I had like two jobs and I was in it in my personal life too. Um, I was very emotionally unavailable. I didn't know it at the time, um, but I just thought that that's just who I was. I mean, that's just my personality. I don't cry that often, you know, I just do what has to be done. And and then, working in that CCU unit, constantly understaffed, we had really sick patients and I had this duty I felt like If I wasn't there, because all of these nurses would tell me oh, I'm so glad you're here, I'm so glad that you're charging, I wish you could work every day.

Speaker 3:

I probably sent some of that to you. I'm so sorry every day and I probably sent some of that to you.

Speaker 4:

Oh gosh doesn't it come off as good qualities. Yeah, and then, if I wasn't there, I would, I distinctly remember, saying to myself, who's going to take care of these patients if I don't show up? Who's going to lead the crews? And and because I was getting all that great feedback from the nurses and I was like, oh, I'm doing a good job Like this, we're, we're getting through it. And they leaned on me and that felt good.

Speaker 4:

That was, you know, purpose, and I was working a lot and I didn't realize how much of a toll that that took on me because I had no sense of self. Looking back, I was. It was just work and being there for the, for my other nurses, being there for the patients. And then that one day that incident happened and I remember being very upset whenever it happened and then I was like tearful, but I was talking to, you know, the people I needed to. I even talked to the chaplain and I was like, oh man, this really sucked. And and so, and people, now, looking back, I realized that a lot of the nurses- Julie like hey, are you okay?

Speaker 4:

Like that was a pretty I heard. What happened is is, are you okay? And and when I would talk about it, I was really tearful, more tearful than I'd ever been with anything else, and then so that was in January. A lot of this now, looking back, a lot of the signs that I want to have other people try to self reflect and see in them is I was anxious, but I was also very angry at like the little things, like why isn't pharmacy?

Speaker 4:

sending this and I mean more. So I was just sensitive to a lot of things and I was tearful over the smallest stuff. It was hard to go to sleep. If I had to work the next day, I couldn't sleep. That was a big, big sign. And then I transferred to the cath lab and then they were actually more understaffed than the ccu, and so I went from the battlefield at ccu to I mean how it just uh, and, and so I worked even more. So I was working like five days a week and then on call and there was only a couple of us. I just I finally had a couple of days off in May and I remember like I think I stayed in bed for the three days or something and then I looked at my scrubs and all of a sudden I was like, oh no, no, I don't know what that is.

Speaker 4:

But why, I don't even want to look at those, I can't, I can't put those on. And something happened and I reached out to my psychiatrist through email and he said I'll get you in after clinic, which never happens I mean, he's booked out months and so I went in after he finished clinic. I told him all the details of that incident and he looked at me and he said you have PTSD, you're not allowed to work. And I was like what?

Speaker 4:

I don't have PTSD, I'm a nurse, I know what that is like, and and then I just was like oh god what do I do now I mean yeah, and then it just, you know, like I said, I dove into healing, I tried to you, I tried to use my short-term disability and ethel money. Nothing, and like it. They wouldn't allow it no, they said because I had depression previous to the PTSD diagnosis that it's in the same category and so they wouldn't pay.

Speaker 4:

Wow so that was a blow. I mean, I and I kept getting these, these you know the flashback of the incident in the Marine Corps I, I'm paying, I've been paying for short term disability. Can't have that. So I cashed out my 401k and use that to live off of, and then, thankfully, I had resources and nonprofits to help pay for different types of therapies which work at the psych hospital. And then I met some great people there and that's where I met my buddy, derek, and we were sitting in the Valor unit. We were the two nurses there that day and we were watching the COVID you know New York's blowing up and all that and we looked at each other and I just I said man, I just feel he was like, like we could do more and I said yeah.

Speaker 4:

Yeah and so. But I felt good because I was. I had never done any healing and so the healing I did for three, four or five months. I was feeling really good and confident. And so we went to New York in the height and we did that for a couple months, came back and I took time off and then I went right back into therapy. That's when I did neurofeedback therapy through a nonprofit help pay for that.

Speaker 4:

There are supposed to be 20 sessions of the neurofeedback therapy. There's supposed to be 20 sessions of the neurofeedback therapy. And I did five and I felt so good after five because, again, I was so bad and I was like, oh no, Texas needs my help because they're blowing up with COVID. And she told me she was like, Well, you've only done five sessions and I'm like, but I feel great, like this is, this is great. And so I went to Texas and I only stayed there three weeks because I did have some healing boundaries, yeah, yeah. And I recognized that this is not where I needed to be and that was a hard decision to make, decision to make at first, but then I was like no, no, we can't save the world, I need to take care of myself.

Speaker 4:

So I came back, did more therapy, um, and then, and then I only worked prn because I was like I'm not doing full-time, I'm not doing contracts, so I just did agency PRN at KU and then COVID hit and.

Speaker 4:

I was on the COVID unit there and I was like, okay, all right, so. But there I met somebody who was in medic school and I was like you know, I always wanted to do field work and I cause, I wanted, I want to fly. And at that time I thought I got to do something else, like and, and I I posted something on Facebook and it was about like getting out of nursing. And one of my classmates messaged me and she said you always talked about flying, why don't you do that? And I was like, well, I mean, you're right, I did always talk about it, but yet it's still trauma, like it's still, you see, the worst of the worst.

Speaker 4:

But so I went that route just to try to like I gotta try something else. I probably should have just worked at Target or something, but um, so I went down that road, but it was great, it was good EMS is not easy, and but I felt good about being there and I was like, oh, this is it. I mean I took like a $60 an hour pay cut, but it wasn't about the money, it was about me and my boundaries and what can I do to keep this balance of life?

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 4:

And, and so I was so like the.

Speaker 4:

The healing is up down up down up down and then I was like on the up, and then a personal injury At where I was working happened to me from a coworker and it just was that was the end of 22 and I just it got really dark and um, after the incident, in 19 I would have these 19,. I would have these these thoughts of like I, I don't want to be here, I didn't want to die and I didn't want to, like, leave the earth and leave life. But I just couldn't handle being so exhausted all the time and just getting out of bed to use the bathroom was like a task that I was just so. I was tired of being so tired and I was like I just don't want to be here anymore. And I remember seeing my daughter laying on her bed. She was was on her phone and I was like I don't, I don't want her to have pain of me dying, like I, and so I would picture her at my funeral and that's what held me on, like that's, that's what I held on to. I battled with suicide ideations daily and sometimes taking life like minute by minute, sometimes second by second, just like okay, you're girls, you know that's I just latched on to. That was my lifeline, just to get through and help heal myself and process things Then was doing great.

Speaker 4:

And then the end of 22. I mean, I thought I was going to, I thought I was where I was going to be, was like I'm going to retire here, this is where I'm supposed to be, and and then something happened. And then in just so that happened, I believe in August of 22,. By January of 23, I reached out to my psychiatrist because I had a fleeting thought one day Well, if I write letters to my children explaining why I'm doing this or why I did it. And then I was like, oh, we are not okay. So I reached out and I was like I have to do Kennedy, this is my last ditch effort. And he got me in like two weeks later and that was, that was life changing. That's what it took to stay and then to stay on, then to stay on earth.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, to stay here, to not give up. That was life-changing. It saved my life. You know my children kept me here, but the ketamine was the big change.

Speaker 1:

Wow.

Speaker 3:

Wow, wow. Well, tell us more about that, if you would.

Speaker 4:

Absolutely so. My psychiatrist. I had been with him for several years and I had been through like 30 different antidepressants throughout my life therapies and things like that and so we did a DNA test and I think it was through GenoMind, and so it evaluated what medications would work with my DNA and I was like, well, we'll see whatever.

Speaker 4:

And I was like well, we'll see whatever. So we did that. We got the results and at the top of the list of like what would benefit me the best, of course ketamine was on the top, but it was the most expensive. So I was like of course it's on the top.

Speaker 2:

Top shelf baby.

Speaker 4:

Yeah. And so at the time it was like $1,050 per treatment.

Speaker 1:

Wow.

Speaker 4:

And it was a six-week, one-time-a-week treatment, so it's like over six grand.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 4:

But through the paperwork I would circle all the meds that I had tried, all the antidepressants that I tried, and I'd look over and it would say, like, probably not. Or you know, like on a scale it would yeah they not work.

Speaker 4:

and I was like, holy, okay, maybe there is something to this, but I just couldn't afford it. I just it was way too much money and and when I reached out to him I was like it was half price, so it was only 550. But I told him, I said I have to do this or else I'm not going to be here anymore. I've tried. I felt like I had tried so many different things and so I was scared because I don't want to see the walls melting, or you know. So I saw a psychotherapist a couple times before the treatments and each treatment he would give us a PHQ-9 score and my score on the first treatment day was a 23. And that's. I don't think you can go much higher than that on the PHQ-9 scale. So it's very like severe. It's a measurement of how depressed you are.

Speaker 4:

And I did the treatment and it's in this cozy room. They give you a blanket, they have you hooked up to a monitor so they can watch your vital signs. And I researched and talked to the psychotherapist about what type of music, because that plays a big role. Music, because that plays a big role. So I had my earbuds in and airplane mode and he had the psychotherapist had taught me like, okay, you know, just breathe through it and you're safe and just in all these tools.

Speaker 4:

And I remember just being kind of like really relaxed and I didn't see anything which was great, except towards the end of the like halfway through the infusion I kind of saw like an old TV, the snow on an old TV, an old TV, and that was it. And afterwards I was like, oh, I kind of had like a drunk feeling, but not the. I was still in touch with reality and what was going on. And then so it was once a week for six weeks. The very week I came in he did my phq-9 and I went from a 23 to a three, oh wow.

Speaker 4:

And I was like, yeah, that's really weird. So it like instantly helped with the si instantly, and and then it just kind of like paused, like my brain was just like we're okay, everything's all right, I'm not like happy and life is great, but I'm, I'm okay. And so each week, um, I think week three was a little rough and I I remember I was working at KU, at PRN, and I remember coming for week three or four and I told my infusionist and I said, man, I got so frustrated at work and I was in the the supply room and I just started crying and I was mad that I was crying and he was like, oh, you mean, you were feeling your feelings. And I was like, okay, he was like welcome to you know, this is how it's supposed to be.

Speaker 4:

And but after the six, each week he would give the phq-9 and scale up. And so each week I would, he would go up in the dosage and I think my last two weeks were like the max dosage. And then I remember afterwards, um, I was talking to my infusionist and I was just like I feel, I feel like this should be working and he goes. Well, some people are infusionist and I was just like I feel I feel like this should be working and he goes. Well. Some people are late bloomers and I was like well, what is that? And he was like sometimes it takes a couple months and I'm like oh my God, I can't what.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 4:

But I was so stuck for years in that space that I didn't realize that I was okay. Space that I didn't realize that I was okay and so slowly I would realize that I could do the things. But my, my habits were to lay in bed all the time and, you know, not take a shower for a couple days or you know things like that. And but then when I would make myself do it, it was easy and I was like, oh, so it kind of felt like I could, if I was in the hole, I could climb out of it easier and I could process things easier and I just had to trust and I had to relearn how to be a different person, which also meant getting a lot of people out of my life, because at that time I was like, proud to be the go to person and, oh, everybody confides in me, I'm everybody's counselor and therapist and that's me and I'm proud of that.

Speaker 4:

No that was very unhealthy. And so in my PHQ-9 score now is anywhere from like a three to five. I've had one maintenance infusion a year later and I'll probably do another one soon because I know going into depressive season then, you know, it's just a little buffer just to make sure that we're we're going to stay Okay. Yeah, it was a game changer. I don't think I've had one thought of not being here since the very first infusion, and it's wild to me, but it's great so can you feel joy?

Speaker 3:

do you feel joy?

Speaker 4:

so the how I am now after the infusions is like I feel everything yeah I I can watch a tiktok with like puppies running around and I'm like oh my. God, it's so cute.

Speaker 2:

And.

Speaker 4:

I'm like crying and anxiety and and fear and passion, and that was so foreign. And so when it was happening to with me once, I was healing and I was my, my neurons and and my pathways were just doing their work, I was crying, but in that was just how my emotions were coming out and I could be talking about something great and then just like tears would be coming out and I'm like, okay, I'm not upset, I'm not sad, it's just my brain and my body are now connected and I feel it all. But now I have the tools of, like processing it and reflecting back, checking in on myself. Yeah, so people in stress too, in stress too, in that first year after the treatments, I would just cry, but my face would be the same, it would just tears would just come out.

Speaker 4:

And I'm like, well, maybe this is because I never cried for 20, 30 years, but even over-the-counter medications are different. I feel like my whole body and brain is just there. It's all new and I don't know, but I'm not on any medications. I was on Xanax for several years and I'm just very thankful and also protective of this new space that I have, very, very protective, almost too protective. So I have to push myself to be like, yes, you can go to functions and I drive myself, so I can drive home and you know um, but surround and also surrounding myself with the the right people, um, it makes a big difference yeah so you're currently working.

Speaker 3:

Yes, and how, and it's? I remember you said like in an ER or agency ER or something like that. So how are you different? How is? How is nurse Christina different than before?

Speaker 4:

One thing that I my one of my therapists told me. She said you can only do what you can do in the time that you have it, and that has stuck with me for years and I actually teach that to, like the younger nurses, um, and so I keep that and I and sometimes I have to tell myself like I'm doing my best. If I, if I have questions, um, I check in with myself. Often I pick up on the signs that, like, if my anxiety is getting a little bad or if my depression is like, oh, maybe we're going down, I'm like, okay, well, what is it? I start to push myself a little too hard in the ER and then I'm like, oh, let me just go to the bathroom reset. It's going to be fine, but I still have that.

Speaker 4:

I'm territorial, I'm passionate, I get not as upset, but I get like this is what we need to do. You know, I still advocate and um, but I can go home, I can leave it at work, and there's only been two times where it's come home with me, but it wasn't about work, it was about an incident that happened with the people at work, um, and that was like touching on morals and ethics and things, and so I use my drive time home to be like I left it all. I did what I could do. They're turned over to the other staff I don't.

Speaker 4:

I don't do overtime right um, I'll, once this contract is up, I will probably go back PRN and probably part time flying, because that was the other transition. Flying, I was the advocate. We me and my partner we were able to do what we thought was right. We didn't have to wait for pharmacy or IV or scary it's. You know, you, it's all you and you know you have your medical director. But that's where the autonomy and that's where I was like oh, this is it, this is how, where I'm supposed to be. But when I was flying in Arkansas I had the. That job was, that was it. But my support system was back in Kansas city. So I had to come back to Kansas city because I I couldn't just have my job.

Speaker 3:

You're making. You're making selfish decisions now.

Speaker 1:

Self-care.

Speaker 3:

Self-care. You're putting yourself first, you're thinking about Christina and what she needs to be able to manage life, and that is huge and that is it takes a lot of courage, because fear of all that you've let go is what stands in a lot of people's way Fear of doing it differently, fear of clearing and processing. You're different. We just talked about this last week. You're literally different. Your neural pathways are different and getting to know who you are now and it's a never-ending process I have found you know, you think you know and you're like, oh, that's not interesting, so okay, but you're able to notice. You know it's not this disconnected.

Speaker 3:

I think last week he was talking about driving in the passenger seat Like we've all been in the passenger seat of our lives and you know, sometimes you like try to take over the steering wheel and you veer off the side of the road. That ain't right. Or sometimes you're sitting in the back seat trying to give a correct. You gotta be the driver, the safe driver, on the road, following the markers and making the choice. You make the choice to stop at the stop sign. You make the choice to. You know, go on the yellow light or not. You know what I mean. So you're making the choice to where your career goes. You're making the choice to be where you need to be. You're making the choice to where your career goes. You're making the choice to be where you need to be. You're making the choice to take a minute and go to the bathroom and it's all fine.

Speaker 3:

And in my mind back then it wasn't fine, like I couldn't let go, I couldn't allow it, I couldn't allow it, and I think there are a lot of people who probably feel very similar in that. The reason why it's such a big fucking deal that when nurses don't take their lunch, you know, and then trying to get nurses to take lunch, it's not just about eating, it's not just about that. Those nurses cannot let it go. You have a life, a unit. Other nurses walk, you're.

Speaker 3:

So you just want me to like disconnect, go to the lunch, you know, go get and eat and then just come right back in like it's not that easy and nobody understands that. But it can be like you can develop the skills to get you in a place like you said. It is going to be fine. You can only do what you can do. Some places are more toxic than others and I think everybody needs to find a place that supports them in the way that they needed to be supported, you know.

Speaker 4:

I have a. There's a lot of new nurses at where I'm at now and it's their first job. They've been a nurse for a year and and I've taken a few of them under my wing and I remember one of them saying I just don't know if I can be here. And I said then don't like. And she was like well, I mean, I've only been here a year and I was like I have I know somebody who. She was an LPN for a long time. She got her RN, I think like a year and a half ago, and she's had four jobs and that's okay, because where she went it wasn't right for her.

Speaker 4:

She started off at truman er and she was like oh boy, wow yeah, that's jumping in with both feet, yeah yeah, but she recognized it and I was so proud of her and but you know, she felt this guilt and I was like it's okay, there's nurses are needed everywhere. And so, telling the one and I told her that about my other friend, she was like really, and I said, yeah, girl, I've, I've, probably I've all the places I've worked and I like named them out and it was like a book. She was like, oh, that makes me feel better. And I was like, yeah, don't do this to yourself. If you're not happy, if it's hard on your life and your child, go do something else, find what fits you. And she's trying.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

I mean, I feel like you'd come back and we could do another episode.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 4:

Well, you know, whenever I made that post on Facebook, several people posted on it and so other people could see it and they were like thank you for sharing this. And one of them was like thank you for sharing this. It gives people, slash us hope that there's light at the end of the tunnel. And then I've had people message me personally that asked me about the ketamine and, and one that reached out twice and then really opened up and they were like it's hard to to tell these things because they'll just lock me up. And I said I get that, but there's a difference between being an active crisis.

Speaker 4:

We need to get some help on board, like right now, and I can hear you and listen and be here and we can work through this together and we can use tools together on the phone, through messenger, and so by talking about it and sharing it, I think I've connected and let people know that yes, on the outside, you know, I went to New York and Texas and I did the ambulance thing and the flight nurse and it looks like, oh, you know she's doing all, but oh, no, it was a battle and a struggle and it still is. Every day I'm learning and growing and checking in and processing and using these tools, but being able to recognize myself and feeling it. I feel it in my body. I think before, when I was just living in that life, I was just head, my body was just following what my head was doing and my head was like 100 what my head was doing and my head was like a hundred miles an hour, straightforward. There's no time for break, there's no time for um pausing, because then you might feel something yeah.

Speaker 3:

Right and your brain knows that Right, we don't pause. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think you know we we do want people to know that if you, you have to reach out to someone, so we're not here or equipped to be that one, again, we will put the resources in the links, but you have to reach out because it's you know, you'll just keep going down that path. And you have to reach out and let somebody else in so that you can start a conversation about it, because if you're just swimming in your head, it'll only just stay right there, and so I mean it's very important for us to say that that it's not going to go away and you know, if you're actively suicidal, that is, it's a big deal and we want you here and you need to.

Speaker 3:

You need to reach out to somebody and a lot of times it's not your job. It's not your work. It might not even be someone that you know. You know in your story, christina, you know we don't get a lot of help from the healthcare system that we work in. It's very difficult to navigate and it's a lot of hoops to jump through. And when you're in the depression and when you're in your head and everything feels so heavy, you just don't want, you can't almost do all those hoops and I don't know how to fix that. Well, isn't?

Speaker 2:

I mean, isn't that the part of what we're doing here, like that you know from from what I've, you know, I've read that you know everyone is aware of the mental health crisis in healthcare, but no one knows what to do about it. And so Julie and I, as we kind of made the decision to do this, that was kind of part of the metric of, like, we're just going to do what we can do and see what works. And, uh, it kind of leads me to one of the wrap up questions that I have for you, Christina, which is you know, what's your takeaway from the episodes that you have listened to? What are your takeaways? And like, how are you experiencing, uh, what you've listened to, the, to the work that Julie and I've been doing, and how can we make it better to help more people?

Speaker 4:

I just think it's, first of all, it's just amazing to be able to have a free resource that you guys are putting out there to just be like, oh, let me just try to connect I think connection with people and hearing resources or just people's stories, but it's. I can go to YouTube, I can go to Facebook and and it's like, hey, we're talking about it, we're we're bringing it up, we're getting it all out and I love that. I'm a, I'm a big communicator and a talker and and, um, my biggest thing now is just like trying to share this help, trying to help you guys share it and get it out there, because I know that there's so many, especially the newer nurses, like two years and under. They're just like I think they're just put in a horrible situation system. I mean, that's a whole nother podcast, but, um, I love it. I, I want to be a part of it any way I can. And, um, the platform is amazing and I think you guys are doing great. I love it.

Speaker 3:

Well, it is, you know, and you can tell stories on Facebook, but this was kind of for us taking it to another level of sharing it, and I think we're ready, like we're ready, to go to the next level, to the next level, and so we're so open to whatever that looks like, whoever, whatever we run into, whoever listens to it, who, you know, wants to help. Neither one of us are millionaires. I'll just put that out there.

Speaker 2:

This is all funded on our nursing salaries 100% yeah.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, but it's so important to us that we spoke louder. We needed to speak louder. Going through our situations and having done a lot of healing and knowing where we are now compared to where we used to be, we want others to be right there, just like you. We want others to be on the other side of it, into the learning, into the loving of life, into the purpose and wanting to help others and meaning that everything has meaning to it, and just be out of that robotic. I can't even look at my scrubs Like I'm sick. I can't save my PTO because I got to use it, because I'm calling out and I am not sick, but I am sick. You know that we just want them out of that bunk. There's so many people in it and it seems impossible to get out of when you're in it.

Speaker 3:

Oh yeah, but you can, you can, and it is by just little things, just tiny things, tiny things, one after another, just like you were saying, minute by minute. Sometimes, you know, is is what it takes. And so I'm so glad that you came on, I'm so glad that you posted out on Facebook. I mean, you know, I mean you know clearly, we're, you know, almost a 50 year olds, are on Facebook. That's where we are, that's our social media. I always tease my kids, whatever, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, my daughter's like oh my gosh, you're such a boomer.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, totally.

Speaker 3:

But that's where it is and that's where we see and and um, you know. So just to continue to share, to share the podcast to you know, comment on it If you want to hear about something else, if you want us to talk about something else, if you want us to try and find a guest that knows something about this, I mean, we're so game for whatever is down the pike and we're just here for it and ready for it. So, thank you, you're brave. You're so brave. It's so hard to go through what you've been through and it just takes a lot of bravery and a lot of like warriors.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, we're warriors. I appreciate it so much. Um, um, thank you for doing what you guys do and having me here and listening to me ramble and just getting it out there. Yeah, I thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah, you're so welcome.

Speaker 2:

This is awesome. We hope you've enjoyed this week's episode.

Speaker 1:

Remember, the conversation doesn't end here in here.

Speaker 2:

Keep the dialogue going by connecting with us on social media posted in the links below or by visiting our website, wwwnursingupodorg.

Speaker 1:

Together, let's continue to redefine nursing and shape a brighter future for those we care for. Until next time, take care, stay curious and keep nurturing those connections.

Speaker 2:

And don't forget to be kind to yourself.