Nursing U's Podcast
Nursing U is a podcast co-hosted by Julie and Caleb. We embark on an educational journey to redefine nursing within the modern healthcare landscape.
Our mission is to foster an open and collaborative environment where learning knows no bounds, and every topic—no matter how taboo—is explored with depth and sincerity. We delve into the essence of nursing, examining the intimate and often complex relationships between nurses and their patients amidst suffering and death.
Through our discussions, we aim to highlight the psychological impacts of nursing and caregiving, not only on the caregivers themselves but also on the healthcare system at large.
Our goal is to spark conversations that pave the way for healing and innovation in healthcare, ensuring the well-being of future generations.
'Nursing U' serves as a platform for examining the state of modern civilization through the lens of nursing, tackling issues that range from violence, drugs, and sex to family, compassion and love. We will utilize philosophy, religion and science to provide context and deeper understanding to the topics we tackle.
By seamlessly weaving humor with seriousness, we create a unique tapestry of learning, drawing wisdom from the experiences of elders and the unique challenges faced in nursing today.
Join us at 'Nursing U,' where we cultivate a community eager to explore the transformative power of nursing, education, and conversation in shaping a more whole and healthier world."
Disclaimer:
The hosts of 'Nursing U', Julie Reif and Caleb Schraeder are registered nurses; however, the content provided in this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only. Nothing shared on this podcast should be considered medical advice nor should it be used to diagnose or treat any medical condition. Always seek the guidance of your doctor or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition or health concerns. The views expressed on this podcast are personal opinions and do not represent the views of our employers or our professional licensing bodies.
Nursing U's Podcast
Ep #016 PT 1 - Nurturing Strength: A Journey Through Nursing and Beyond
Have you ever wondered how the unique pressures of nursing shape the bonds we share with our colleagues and patients? Today, we tackle this intriguing question with our surprise guest, Rizz, a former ICU colleague who knows firsthand the intensity of these connections. Together, we explore the profound relationships formed in high-pressure environments, drawing parallels between the camaraderie found in nursing and military service. With a blend of humor and sincerity, we celebrate the supportive and resilient community within the nursing profession, while also touching upon insights from philosophy, religion, science, and art to deepen our understanding of caregiving.
Balancing the demands of a high-stress career like nursing with personal well-being can be a daunting task. Through candid conversations, we address the challenges of managing life outside the hospital walls, exploring coping mechanisms like segmentation and isolation that may initially protect but eventually harm. Reflecting on our own experiences, we shine a light on the potential pitfalls of relying on alcohol to quiet a restless mind and champion healthier alternatives like meditation and journaling. Embracing past struggles as a catalyst for growth, we underscore the value of personal development and resilience in overcoming adversity.
In the ever-evolving landscape of nursing, adaptation is key. We delve into the journey from clinical nursing to nurse informatics, highlighting the importance of planning for career longevity and embracing technological advances in healthcare. Through personal anecdotes, including the inspiring story of an immigrant's transition from physical therapy to nursing, we showcase the diverse roles and opportunities within the field. From mental health nursing to the ICU and beyond, our stories reflect the adaptability and determination that characterize the nursing profession. Join us in exploring the continuous pursuit of knowledge that drives us to improve patient care and innovate within the healthcare system.
Hi, I'm Julie.
Speaker 2:And I'm Caleb. Welcome to Nursing U, the podcast where we redefine nursing in today's healthcare landscape. Join Julie and I as we step outside the box on an unconventional healing journey.
Speaker 1:Together, we're diving deep into the heart of nursing, exploring the intricate relationships between caregivers and patients with sincerity and depth.
Speaker 2:Our mission is to create an open and collaborative experience where learning is expansive and fun.
Speaker 1:From the psychological impacts of nursing to the larger implications on the healthcare system. We're sparking conversations that lead to healing and innovation.
Speaker 2:We have serious experience and we won't pull our punches. But we'll also weave in some humor along the way, because we all know laughter is often the best medicine.
Speaker 1:It is, and we won't shy away from any topic, taboo or not, from violence and drugs to family and love, we're tackling it all.
Speaker 2:Our nursing knowledge is our base, but we will be bringing insights from philosophy, religion, science and art to deepen our understanding of the human experience.
Speaker 1:So, whether you're a nurse, a healthcare professional or just someone curious about the world of caregiving, this podcast is for you.
Speaker 2:One last thing, a quick disclaimer before we dive in. While we're both registered nurses, nothing we discuss here should be taken as medical advice. Always consult with your doctor or a qualified healthcare provider for any medical concerns you may have. The views expressed here are our own and don't necessarily reflect those of our employers or licensing bodies.
Speaker 1:So let's get started on this journey together. Welcome to Nursing U, where every conversation leads to a healthier world. There it is.
Speaker 2:Hey, there it is there it is, it's working.
Speaker 1:See things work, things work.
Speaker 2:Things work.
Speaker 1:And things are always interesting and we never know what's going to happen we have.
Speaker 2:We have a surprise guest this week yes, surprise guest mr riz. So uh, my son, uh gave me. Him and his buddy were giving me about a 30 minute education on slang terms like I you know you hear them talking about uh, like I didn't know what a giat was. Do you know what a giat is?
Speaker 2:no, no no, it's a butt somebody's blind okay and so yeah, yeah, and I I don't know, I think I think it it's like just a. Is it short for something? Well, I think I think it might be short for goddamn like oh like, yeah, yeah like like you, you know when you see, yeah, I didn't see that. Yeah, yeah so like because when you see a hot chick walk by and you're like yeah, yeah, okay, and then riz is to flirt to riz. You can riz somebody up.
Speaker 1:I see that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're Riz.
Speaker 1:You're the embodiment of Riz, come on.
Speaker 3:Not present company. I can see that.
Speaker 2:That's great. So for our audience, for our audience members, Riz worked in the ICU with Julie and I for a very long time.
Speaker 3:Many, many many years.
Speaker 2:Remember that life, yeah, yeah. So Riz and I have stayed in touch over the years and kept up with our stories. And he reached out this week, said he was going to be in town and we scheduled this breakfast and I just I didn't even think about it. I just woke up this morning I was like Riz should just come on the pod. We should, we can, we can it up, we can figure it out Totally.
Speaker 3:It's kind of funny how friendship works. It's actually built in the trenches of what we did as nursing before, when we just call each other and it's like let's just catch up. We don't need to know what happens in every, every, every single thing, about what you know all our lives, every day. But when we connect it's like let's meet immediate, let's meet at the level we can meet and actually like catch up on stuff what's going on?
Speaker 2:yeah you know, those are the, you know the friendships you kind of yeah, yeah this thing, that's right well, I mean, it goes back to what julie and I are always talking about this the you know the nursing community has a such a uh, intrinsic bond, because no one else understands what we've experienced. That's right, so we just can automatically pick up. Actually, this weekend I was sitting with a nurse that I barely know.
Speaker 3:I just know that she's a nurse, and I made just a quippy little comment and she was like oh yeah, it's the same experience that, because I've you know, it's also the same experiences as some of our you know veterans have in terms of meeting each other in the clinic. Riz and I are both veterans yeah.
Speaker 3:They relate to the commonality between you. Know the things that we talk about, the language, and it's also what happens in the trenches. You know the everyday things that we did. Once you're taken out of that environment and you reconnect again, you share something. Oh, yeah, yeah, you share something like that, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's a deep bond.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's a deep bond.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely Same thing with nurses. Yeah, yes, yeah, you hear something like that. Yeah, yeah, it's a deep bond. Yeah, it's a deep bond. Yeah, definitely Same thing with nurses. Yeah, yes, yeah, nurses are the same and and cops, and you know, fire Like people of duress or there are, or there are, stressful situations that you go through together. It's like an energetic bond that just forms and um you know.
Speaker 1:But you said you met, that you met that nurse. You didn't really know that well. So even in, even in that, the commonality, it's just an inner, it's just an energetic connection that you can, just you know.
Speaker 2:But it's, it's experiential, like that. Yeah, that there's. There are certain things that uh only nurses can have context for, or veterans, or right, or whatever. Yeah, yeah so it.
Speaker 1:It is an amazing community and I don't think we do enough within that community. I wonder, why? Is it because we're trying to take care of ourselves? And why don't we gather more? I don't know.
Speaker 2:I was explaining the podcast to someone recently and we were talking about mental health and nursing, they assumed I was talking about the patient. Oh, actually, it was a nurse. It was that same nurse that I was just referencing. Um, her assumption was that that we were talking we were talking about patient mental health, not nurse mental health, and so it was a and and. So that because she was talking about, uh, schizophrenics and I mean she was talking about the violence that she's experienced in her career and schizophrenia, all the different, various forms of mental health it does seem like I mean the hospital you know there's. There's either the mental health people are really struggling with some form of mental health, like schizophrenia or bipolar or whatever, whatever they're dealing with and then there are people who are in duress and not in their normal uh psychology. Their, their, their normal psychology is out the window. Um, so we are predominantly dealing with people who are just not oh, totally Think about it, I mean you know, the open heart.
Speaker 1:The guy who comes in he's 51 and you know we had the went to the cath lab and now he needs open heart and he's, you know, having literal panic attacks trying to cause he's got to stay in the hospital. Now he can't go to work. He has all this stuff that he's got to do. I mean, you're not only dealing with the fragile, you know, vessels of the heart that might, you know, clog at any moment, but you're also dealing with his mental state, you know, and or the wife's mental state. So you know anything, or we might.
Speaker 1:It might be mental health of the patient, but it also might be mental health of the family correct you know, you see that wife that comes in every single day and that husband and you're like I, I mean he's not well, but you know, but you're comforting her and you're because she's tearful and you know, my God, during COVID, I mean, just all of that is, you know, there is, I mean mental health is predominant in caretaking as nurses because it's it's always linked. You have the physical health and you have the mental health and it's always linked.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it kind of goes back to what we were just talking about recently with the mimesis and reflection the idea that we are reflecting humanity and that, if you, if you look at the nursing population and the mental health crisis that exists when you, when you have this conversation, that's what comes up for me that we're taking care of people who are, I mean, either psychotic and in in in, in some kind of manic phase, or they're experiencing an existential crisis, meaning that their, their, their existence is in question, and so we're taking, we're taking that experiencing and the nursing population is reflecting that in their own lives yeah to think.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's really true.
Speaker 3:The thing, too, is, just by looking at every day, the way that we work, okay, you can do the approaches if you're trying to fix a condition. I look at it as this is the way I explain the behavior. Okay, nurses you see running around and taking care of their patients, uh, non-stop and um have. If you look at their behaviors, though, some of them can actually be showing signs of maybe obsessive, compulsive behavior. Nurses themselves, nurses themselves, yeah, yeah, and I don't. You know it's. I'm looking at that and it's like, okay, this is I mean, but they are effective.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:They get this stuff done Without those kinds of behaviors.
Speaker 3:You know the job doesn't get done, you know. And then you see some of these people who are held back and are looking at, let's say, in a code situation and are super analyzed. They tend to be phlegmatic, right, they tend to be what's?
Speaker 2:phlegmatic.
Speaker 3:It's like you take it from the inside and you're internalizing things instead of being an outward person. And these are the best people that can analyze things and actually look at patterns of what the behavior is in order to get us to the goal that we need saving the patient, instead of being the person that are actually injecting the drugs. These are people hey, I'm seeing that there's a pattern within his or her rhythm and, at the same time, the reaction of the drug. Drug. They tend to be the ones that are. You know the background, saying what we're doing is effective, what we're doing is not effective and that's.
Speaker 3:That's how the dynamic works works, usually during a talk. You can go with algorithms if you want, sure, but it's the thing that you look. You know that, you learn that, you've seen that, you've learned as you when you had an experience. For this is what happens. You program that into a body of knowledge in order to affect, uh, a result that you want well, that's that's what I mean.
Speaker 2:Julie and I have talked a lot about, uh, kind of the flow state that you get into, where you're like you're. It's almost as though, uh, your brain is like floating above your head. You have all of this experiential knowledge and you can see what everyone around you is doing and what they need, and you have your tasks that you're performing and you know you got your hands working. You observe what is happening over here and, without even thinking, you see the thing that they need. You reach over, you grab it, you hand it over and you don't even miss a beat. Nothing that you were doing was missed and it's it's that, like that's that bond that happens in those situations. We've all three been in those situations together. It's such an incredible experience. It's so powerful, it's a drug itself.
Speaker 1:Like that experience you can't get that experience anywhere else yeah. When you say that hit me hard. I think that's part of really what kept me in for so long.
Speaker 2:Yeah, is that it had to be some kind of chemical brain neurotransmitter addiction to working things out and maybe why my life was kind of spiraling, but yet I was so effective at work uh-huh, yeah, well it's, it's because you're so at such a heightened level there, then everything else that you experience outside of that is Pitiful yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, it doesn't have any meaning.
Speaker 2:It doesn't mean anything.
Speaker 1:We've talked about that multiple times of things, because we're so wrapped up in the you know the higher thinking and the addiction of processing and and I guess you just gravitate towards that and without even purposely you know your life is just a mess, which we've talked about.
Speaker 3:that too, you know it's just everything's a fucking mess yeah, it's like we developed that, uh, that that talent or that skill of isolating things that happen in the clinic and isolating things that happen in the home. Oh yeah, we're completely segmented. We're segmented that way. It is a coping mechanism, basically for us to proceed through life so that there is less harm. I believe that. 100% Right. I believe that. So, for example, like you said, if you bring it back, but then like that's, the drive.
Speaker 2:It's self-protective, but at some point it becomes self-destructive.
Speaker 3:Correct, yeah, correct, and I look at it as more of a continuum, just like the same thing as mental health, a lot of the things that we see what we define as mental health problems, when mental health issues are actually just a matter of describing the behavior to be used in order to get to the result. You can see, like I mentioned, several different things earlier, like OCD, or it is a fix to being detailed.
Speaker 3:You have to be detailed about what you do in order to be successful as a nurse, to be, successful as a nurse being having, you know, an analytical mind that you know is misconstrued as being too withdrawn okay, but it's actually a behavior of an analytical person that sees things around them and can actually try to predict outcomes. Predict outcomes um to a successful, to being successful at a later time, so that you can uh, you can actually do do better for your patients.
Speaker 2:You know patients benefit and that's the thing like you invest all of your being into doing that at work, and then, because that's what matters, is the patient is what matters, and because they're going to die if you don't, and so you invest all of yourself into that, and then it's like the rest of your life doesn't matter, right? So you just let you. You're like, I mean, I don't think anybody can understand the, the need to just the need for silence and and things to be in place in order, uh, that that experience creates it and it falls apart so fast for us.
Speaker 1:But you is so true. That just makes me reflect on my drinking and I think part of that was quieting, quieting, you know, when I wasn't at work, because you know I was a responsible drinker. I didn't ever drink before I went to work. I rarely drank when I got off in the morning, but the days, the nights that I didn't go to work, you know that. But I feel like it was to quiet some of the chatter.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:To, to go to a place that was like, like you know, you could just like a let down, you can let go.
Speaker 1:Because you go home and you would think that that's a let down or let go of the hospital setting, which it is, but now you're in this whole other role. So, like you're the mom and you're the, you know you have lots of things to do and you're home and you're a wife and taking care of all that and trying to trying to take care of yourself, and it's like are the skills all used up?
Speaker 2:that's how it felt just your life force is used up, yeah, your energy is used up, yeah so to to prevent some of that, like feeling of just irritation and inability to cope.
Speaker 3:For me, drinking was soothe, that like carafate you kind of slow things down a little bit to kind of make sense of it all, because our brains are struggling to make sense of all the input that we're trying with that the world is actually basically bringing to our doorstep all the time. Yeah, and in order to make sense of it you gotta slow it down. Alcohol actually might do the trick, unknowingly, you know that's because your condition basically to you know what I mean think about. Why do you reach out for a drink? Yeah, and why that drink? Because at one time or another you learn that when I drink this beverage it actually gets to calm me down a little bit and it's conditional. And it's conditional Now, in a way, that's actually a good thing. But when it gets to be habitual and happens every day, after a certain time it gets to be a dependence. Good thing, right.
Speaker 3:Yeah so yeah, that's sometimes how I look at things too, yeah.
Speaker 1:Because, you know, drinking just in itself is not, is not bad, like going to a bar or having a glass of wine If in my life, like if I could have it, that's what I would do but because it became such dependence for me, it like I'm not able to do that. I'm not able to do that, and so I feel, though, if I would have learned some of these other ways to kind of let down, whether it be breathing, meditation, walking, grounding, journaling.
Speaker 1:I mean, you know all of the things that I am doing now. If I could have done some of those back then, then maybe I wouldn't have become so dependent on the alcohol. Some of those back then, then maybe I wouldn't have become so dependent on the alcohol, and then it could have just been a, you know, an occasional thing, Correct?
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I mean, yeah, that's true, like, but you would have, like that's the thing, like the, the nursing experience is such an extreme experience and if you would have maintained that moderacy, that moderate lifestyle, like, maybe you would have been marginally healthy. You never would have dealt with the stuff that you dealt with and become the person that you are.
Speaker 1:That is very true. So, my path that's. That's the path it took.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I'm, I mean I'm thankful for that part that that if I, if, if things, if that relationship would have worked out in just the right way, that I would have continued doing everything the way that I was doing. You know, maybe I stay in that low level, chronic malaise and I never get out of it and I never actually like find the courage to stand up for my own life. I think this is probably a better path.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean oh, oh, oh, 100% for me.
Speaker 2:Like I never would have been as self reflective, I never would have confronted the issues that I had to confront ever Right. So for that I'm, I'm, I like I can. It's the difference between a human being, like in a passive sense human being, and being human like I can actually be more human. Now I still, like, obviously have tremendous amount of growth to to achieve, but you know, I don't think that ever ends, I don't. You know there's different levels.
Speaker 1:You can always I mean it's a journey. It's a journey and I feel like we both are solidly on that journey. For sure I don't feel like it really ever ends, because things will continue to arise situations, experiences, people, you meet different things, like it's always a journey, but I feel like we're solidly on the journey.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Getting on that journey was very, very hard, and and so sometimes for some people it takes something quite drastic to kind of turn that line yeah, like some people are just blessed with, like, a good environment, good genetics, whatever it is they, they get to have this, you know, innate wisdom to move through life in a, in a, in a way that is healthy and and produces wholeness within themselves and everyone around them. Then there's of us, those of us that have to, you know, go through the trenches yeah, so I mean I just listened to our episode um about the fecal transplant, uh, Uh-huh.
Speaker 1:So we just it just released. I think it's number 11. Riz we talked about fecal transplant because Caleb has done a lot of thought work around C, diff and a deeper meaning of what that means in our microbiome, so we kind of talked about that on the podcast.
Speaker 2:It's just a mental exercise. It's a mental exercise right.
Speaker 1:We have no scientific backup data. All you gotta do is Google it, but it it made me think even more, because then I came across an article or something that I sent Caleb would. That was how we actually are absorbing the energy, and whatever it is, from the environments that we are in, and so it correlated with what I was saying yes oh wow amazing yeah, and he was a professor or like a scientist or something, and it was from a long time ago, like maybe in the 90s.
Speaker 1:Um, I feel like he was at a chalkboard like talking about something, but he was basically saying that, um, you know, there's not a lot of studies, because studying energy and dynamics like that is very difficult, uh, to replicate that in like a research format. Um, but if you just think about it, all the experiences that we have witnessed been involved in had our hands in leaned on the bed to hug the poop, the pee, you know the blood, the blood of someone else, like that.
Speaker 3:Covering you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 1:I mean, there's really no barrier there like that. That has to have some kind of bearing on nursing. What do you think about that Riz?
Speaker 3:Like accidentally, you know, when it comes to mind accidentally picking up some of a patient's portable potty. I was going to reposition it somewhere. I just picked it up, and what Body mechanics. You always think about body mechanics, right? So I picked it up, didn't even think about it and put. So I picked it up, didn't even think about it, and put it on my body.
Speaker 3:Well, the patient just used it yeah, oh, shit, oh I was in disbelief right there, okay, so you just did that. What now? And that morning I woke up. What I wanted to look the best I could, I was wearing on my all white, um, but I'm at that point, internalizing thinking, okay, my, my phlegmatic cell thinking, analyze this how are you?
Speaker 3:gonna do this now. Do you now switch into your uh ocd and panic? Do you now switch into your OCD and panic of what you just did because of the microbes of what you just did, the microbes that just touched you, or do you go into, you know? Stop right there and stop everything and just put it down and just go for the bathroom. What do you do? Yeah, I mean you don't have a choice?
Speaker 2:Yeah, mean you don't have a choice? Yeah, you don't have a choice.
Speaker 3:But the thing is, life comes at you I mean, I think it was my grandma that said this before life comes at you and then you cope. Okay, you have to bring yourself to equilibrium at that point and everything is a decision. What do you do now? You just had this. What do you do now? You just had this. What do you do now? Right, so I forgot what I did but I'm here.
Speaker 2:But you said something. You said something that we talked about in the last episode. You said the micro, like your, your analytical brain immediately went to the threat. It's not just the filth of it. This is the difference between someone who isn't working in this setting like just somebody that is a normal person in the public that has an exposure to shit they aren't thinking. They're thinking gross, it's just gross. We have this deeper, penetrating knowledge of all of the threats that exist in that. Like I think that's the innate disgust, obviously, but you know, we were talking about how the nurse has so many unseen threats that they're dealing with in their psychology. Yeah, our lives are always being threatened, yeah.
Speaker 2:At the smallest level and then at the human level, where people are actually calling in death threats on us. Correct?
Speaker 3:Or swinging at us, or swinging at us, Just like the way I could look at this too. Explain it is that when I I've lived here in the US since I was 19. That's back in 1988. I'm kind of aging myself. But I came home probably about 20 years later on with my wife at that time and she was like Riz, I don't get you.
Speaker 3:We decided to write on one of these public utility what do you call this? Buses? Right, and my behavior was I was like this the whole time. I don't understand why you didn't used to be. We grew up, we were on buses and we were on what they call jeepneys before handing on to everything and not having a care. I mean, I don't get you.
Speaker 3:Why are you acting like this, where your hand is always like this? Now I thought about it. I said well, you know what I said. It's kind of one of those things where you kind of have more knowledge now that you know that if you don't do this, you're touching everything. You're touching this that could have been touched by that person and that person. I just saw him earlier do this and did this and held on to the stuff, and now I'm going to hold on to that Same thing. Another person did this and there was a pole that he held on to the jeepneys that we have right To stabilize yourself. I was like this and I was like, really risking it all off, I would not hold on to that, yeah, yeah, because I said I saw that guy do this too and he did that. He went like this, yeah, did this. And I said now you want me to hold on to that? Yeah, okay, now, that conversation was all in my head at that time I did not explain it to her, because I knew she wouldn't understand.
Speaker 3:Right, we understood what that is because of microbiology. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's how I look at that that's fine, it's always self-preservation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it really is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, but again it goes back to okay. So what do you do now? So we're dealing with people that are in an existential crisis and exposing ourselves, and we are in an existential crisis as well. We're managing our existential crisis crisis as well. We're managing our existential crisis. We're managing all the threats that are coming at us in patient care.
Speaker 1:Yeah, while managing patient care.
Speaker 2:While managing the person in existential crisis.
Speaker 3:And some people look at it as a threat in everyday lives we have as nurses. But it's also, it could also be. It's just what happens. How do you cope with it? How do you?
Speaker 2:So I think, I actually think this is one of the reasons why I love working woodworking so much. It's filthy.
Speaker 2:It's so filthy, like I, like it's just, it's so filthy, like it's just, I'm dusty and I'm dirty and I'm sweaty and it's real. And well, actually, I have actually a pretty profound realization, one that I think, in the end, will be proven entirely accurate. I believe this a hundred percent. One of the things that I found I used to have a stereo in my shop and um, and I would listen to the radio and um, I would listen to the. I had speakers all around the shop and I would. I would listen while I was, while I was working, and in that season I was always sick, I always had sinus infections and in that season I was always sick, I always had sinus infections.
Speaker 2:And when I switched to over-ear headphones, I stopped getting sinus infections. So the wood is cellulose, it's getting into my ear and then the bacteria growing, uh, from the cellulose feeding on it. So I was getting sinus infections from that and, uh, they stopped because I stopped. So the the thought is you know, we'll wear masks over our, our mouth and nose and we'll wear eye protection, but we never cover our ears. I think the masks will eventually cover our ears. They're gonna. Somebody's gonna prove. Somebody's gonna prove this and and validate the data, but it is like uh in. In alternative health, one of the things that I've learned is that something like 90% of bacterial and viral infections are incubated in the ear, so they drop down the tubes into your throat and your nose and cause sinus infections and all of it. So I think that eventually, the data will show that ears need to be covered as well.
Speaker 3:That's why I wear. That's my prediction. That's why I wear earbuds when I take a bath. Really, earbuds, think about it. Okay, once you're going, what happens whenever water goes into your ear-hmm, it's a portal for infection, right?
Speaker 2:well, see I?
Speaker 3:I use hot water to clean my ears good, but what if your environment, for your ear, is not the same as the environment that water has? What if you, your water has microbes that you don't know? Go in, you know, if it's outside it's outside it's fine Sure sure, but I take a shower.
Speaker 3:When I take a shower, I usually put earbuds, and the reason why I do that is because it plugs my ears from getting water in there, because I noticed I was having a cold too. Every time I take a bath, every day, that night there's like this humming. There's not the humming, but it's like echo. But when I wear earbuds and keep the water out, it tends to See.
Speaker 2:I use hot water and I clean. That's how I get the wax out. Yeah, this is coming into a personal hygiene.
Speaker 3:But it's a practical. I mean from a practical point of view.
Speaker 2:See, I started using water to wash my ears out. Whenever I'm in the shop, I do a full facial irrigation I irrigate my nose, I irrigate my eyes and I irrigate my ears. I do the ears in the shower and I really don't get sick from it anymore.
Speaker 1:That just shows you how permeable our whole entire body is our skin, our eyes, our nose. You know, during COVID I mean, yes, we would wear like eye protection if you were going to get splashed.
Speaker 1:Like there's clearly, you know, droplets that could get into your eyes during certain situations. But during COVID they were like you don't even have to get splashed those droplets and that is just in the air. It gets in your eyes. That's why we have to wear goggles or whatever you know why. Why we had to do that? Because it was like a droplet situation Even even a patient with flu, like, we didn't wear goggles, we just wore a mask, so we didn't get it in our nose and mouth. But so now our eyes too, and our ears, like, and your skin, I mean, if it, you're just permeable. I mean if you, if you are around, whatever you are around, whatever you are around, you are going to pick up, whether it's energy, particles, microbes, skin. I mean think of all the patients that you took their socks off oh my gosh, the snowflakes yep, or they've been in bed so long that you take off the sheet.
Speaker 1:It's just like all over the floor skin yeah you don't think you're getting and and I'm wearing a mask in that room he doesn't have any. He didn't have any infectious things. I've got gloves on, but I didn't wear.
Speaker 2:Oh how much. How much dna do we have rolling around our bodies?
Speaker 1:That's what I mean. Dna carries energy and frequency, because DNA can be changed and altered. How could it not be affecting us?
Speaker 3:That's what I have to say. That's why I also noticed some of these nurses. I said they're very effective at what they do. What they do is once they go into the patient's room. That's when they do their greeting. Hi, my name is Rick. My name is blah blah blah. How are you? They do the socializing first, isolate that time after they do that and they prepare the patients before they actually do the care and tell them tell you what, we'll talk later and let's go ahead and take care of you. They stop talking at that time and then they take care of the patients. Why is that? I said I noticed that and they're doing that. It's another again. It's a process behavior. Again, as soon as they do that, they keep their mouths closed.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Notice this with some filipino nurse that you see that a lot of them are very talkative, but at once they're doing their care. They're not talking the whole time, they're doing the care and then they step back and then they start talking again. That way they're actually shielding their mouths. Interesting from getting you know.
Speaker 1:Interesting getting input wow, yeah, yeah I never thought about that, but it is it's.
Speaker 3:It's it's a process change in order to affect something that you want. You changed your process itself of how you, you, uh, you give your care, and that's how you affect it, the way you want it to happen like an, an adaptation, you know, constantly adapting to the situation, so that you know bottom lining, we can stay alive, basically, or then step it up.
Speaker 1:Another would be like to stay sane, you know, or to stay working, to stay, you know who. You are constantly adapting, yourself and I and a lot of that then turns just maladaptive. Really not, not necessarily in your line of work, not necessarily at the bedside, because we've all have perfected that, you know, but it's like they're the cutoff is there. That doesn't really happen outside of that path. Yeah, and you know, but it's like they're the cutoff is there. That doesn't really happen outside of that path.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and you know some some people may also think somebody actually asked me for risk. Did you go to nurse informatics after your clinical nursing? Because you, you got tired of, you know, of taking care of sick people, sick people. No, I said it's not really that, but it's just, I guess, part of the way. The reason why I decided to go into that field was because I saw myself as being injured. I looked at my age okay, back when I was about 20s. Okay, I said I was strong, I was doing things. We, we were lifting patients. You know I was, you know, doing the things we needed to do.
Speaker 3:And at that time I kind of looked ahead. I said, okay, at 50, will I still be doing this kind of work? Right? So at that time I said you better start planning, go aside from going into you, you've already done your education. A lot of people are happy and, don't get me wrong, a lot of people are happy with staying with what they're doing as a floor nurse or an ICU nurse. We've seen one of the greatest nurses that we know, who works nights, do the stuff that she did as a nurse, as an ICU nurse, and, retired from that job, did the best. I said that's great, but the thing is I want to be longer than that, I want to impact nursing a little bit more than that. Thinking about nurse informatics, this thing came up and said what I said.
Speaker 3:I looked at an opportunity again and said, okay, by this time I'm going to be done, I can continue my nursing, do the care I do, which I really enjoy. I still miss it, actually, but by that time my back's not going to be that strong. You know my joints are going to start deteriorating. What do you do? So I embarked on that journey basically to go into nurse informatics, knowing that you can affect patient care outcomes that way. So years later, I'm now 55. Years later, I'm now, you know, 55. Yeah, yeah, and that's yeah. That's what I'm doing. But I haven't stopped. I haven't stopped. I'm still trying to get into education parts again, going for my doctorate later. I think it's part of my what do you call this? The programming again. What are you going to be doing next? And I guess my point is we tend to act upon our experiences and plan things ahead for what we need to be doing, and for me it's not to get out of taking care of patients, about the disease itself. It's not that, it's just that I will be effective behind the screen.
Speaker 3:Covid happened. When COVID happened, what was I doing? I was continuing to work, still because I could work from home. I still did the things I needed, but I was still affecting nursing care as part of it. Right Now it comes back full circle. Covid subsided Right In 2021. Right, the effects of COVID 2021, 2023, something like that and we went back into working as nurses again. Open society, just like you know, just like before 21, you, you gotta okay, okay. So I said evolve. What's going to happen now?
Speaker 1:an opportunity came up talk about how nursing informatics and doing that type of nursing. How does nursing informatics impact like nursing care, and what are some of the changes that you've seen over the years that you've been in it, cause you've been in a long time now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I started. Let me see I was. Actually I wasn't going to be a nurse and I never started as five-year-old guy thinking, oh yeah, when I grew up, I want to be a nurse.
Speaker 1:Right, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's not the guy's dream. No, that's not the guy's dream.
Speaker 3:Everybody told you you're a good risk. With the knowledge that you have and the aptitude that you have, you can be a doctor if you wanted to. But it kind of evolved because the thing is, when I saw the lifestyle for the doctor has to go through, it's just not my thing. Your head is programmed to yeah, you study the sciences, you do this, you do that. But yeah, I'm also Asian, by the way, and the Asian thing is you're going to be a doctor or something else, or an engineer, maybe, right, but you were kind of programmed to be a doctor.
Speaker 3:And as life went through, I was in physical therapy before because that was the gateway to the us at that time. Oh, I was an immigrant yeah, honest, honest to goodness, immigrant. Um came here when I was about 19 and at that time I had only two years of physical therapy school and I only had two more years to go. And here my grandma's going. You need to come over now because your petition came up. You got to go. So I said, okay, I'm not going to kick and scream like I planned to, but I'm going to go ahead and go. So I went as soon as I got there. I wanted to go ahead and, you know, continue what I was doing. I saw a little bit of what I said.
Speaker 3:Okay, this is kind of interesting because a lot of the nurses at that time that was friends with my, who were friends with my grandma, were nurses. A lot of people were friends with her and they kind of showed me the you know, the opportunities. Hey, you can do so much with nursing. Actually, one was an ICU nurse, another one was doing something else, something like that, like that, you know, and I went into that thinking I do not have a need to go into physical therapy anymore. To be at that time was the ticket to come over here quickly, right. So I came in and said none of that, it just, you know, it just didn't, you know, it just didn't touch, you know, my soul at that time. Right, right, right. And actually, to be honest with you, I know it sounds cliched, but you had to call it.
Speaker 1:We talked about it so many times.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I went into nursing and kind of, you know, did it that way and so I basically saw the possibilities of what you can do. You can do, you know, you can use usual bedside nursing, you can do ICU nursing, you can do just about everything in terms of industrial nursing, community health and all that. So I said, wow, I'd love to do all of that. My main thing was to do mental health or behavioral health nursing at that time. At that time it wasn't called behavioral nursing yet was called mental health nurse, right, yeah, I said that's what I'm gonna be. But again it evolved and it goes into, you know, the um why?
Speaker 2:why mental health? Why did why? Was that what you wanted?
Speaker 3:to be, I guess my, my sister, uh, was a psychologist, okay, and a lot of the I had to do, a lot of coping as well with my family background at that time that you had to cope with, and a lot of that was done through introspection. A lot of that was done through again, um, describing the behavior of why you are didn't even know I was doing this, sure, so I started doing that and then decided you know, that's where I want to go. Wow, that was my choice. But I even did. What do you call this? Of course, all of us did maternity health. That was my worst curse.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh. Yeah, I never wanted to deliver another baby.
Speaker 3:Exactly. I mean, I came to a point where the circulating nurse was like uh-huh, excuse me, young man, are you going to be throwing up right on my oar?
Speaker 1:You better get out of here right now.
Speaker 3:That's what she said. I remember that well because I was doubled over with my hands on my knees doing the ventilating, because you know what the sight of the placenta threw me off, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Veins and everything.
Speaker 3:I was like this Well, I guess I'm not going to go into that Process of elimination. And then I got into icu nursing kind of ic nursing got into electrophysiology nursing um, this was in a span of what? 30 years that I did this. And then I did agency nursing, which was you. You find out at 5 45 in the morning where you're gonna go and you go to the hospital in kansas city within a within a 45 mile radius. Yeah, that was a great opportunity because I got to see more of what nursing had to offer and that also showed me the different ways the hospitals did in order to give care. Yep, right. So I'm seeing all this input, getting this input of how this hospital does something different. This hospital does something different too. That again, it's hard work, because nursing is hard work to start with, but I looked at it as this is all input, this is all the learning you're going to have to do for something bigger.
Speaker 3:So did that for 10 years and then got it back into technology, went into electrophysiology nursing, which is basically yeah, yeah, putting people, people to sleep. Yeah, sodium pentothal, that's what we did. Yeah, to put people to sleep under the. You know the, the direction of the. You know the cardiologist and we did that I said. Now I learned that it's not where you put them to sleep, is how you wake them up is the issue. Sure, yeah, it's that's more important. Waking them up is the issue. Yeah, you learn so many things and then after that.
Speaker 3:Um, then after that, as I was doing this, I was already going heavy into my nurse informatics position I decided I need to be grounded, because the money wasn't really that good with that kind of nursing, because you get sent off a lot, yeah Right, so I went back to ICU nursing and that kind of put things back together. Okay. So now this is how it gives you a bit different perspective of what you saw before and brings back the things that you were doing now. So I did that for a while. After that, I finished, I was plucked no, I wasn't finished yet, I was still in school. Is, hey, you seem to be knowledgeable about informatics, or not just informatics, but charting, yeah, charting. Yeah, I always found something wrong. Hey, can we do this better? Or? I looked at the process and this is not part of the scope of practice. This puts it at risk for scope of practice.
Speaker 3:Those little comments that I made apparently made an impression in one of the corporate um nursing pharmacists. She said why don't you come work for us? So I got back 2011, forward into 2017, uh, oh, 2016. That's where I stopped. Oh, that's why I finished my uh, my degree took me a long time to do a master's. So once I did that, I said now, okay, so now you have the title, you know how these things work. You've already been working as nurse informatics for a while now. You just get to have a title to do it. So that's what I got the title, and this opportunity came up to work with a corporate um, one of the biggest corporate um uh um entities in kansas city, and started working there and working specifically more about tech itself. It was another experience again that brought me to knowing how they looked at us in terms of what their goals are, what the driving force is with what they do, starting to realize that a lot of the currency that we have with the delivery of care nowadays is also driven by another entity called data. Once you get the data, that is now a currency that could be used in order to leverage themselves into making it a more profitable private entity into making it a more profitable private entity, right? So did that for a while, for about three years, got laid off. This is during COVID.
Speaker 3:I got laid off and then that's how I you know you got to be looking right, so I looked Again, landed on another opportunity. That's when I started. Okay, this will you know, aside from other personal things that were happening at that time. I said, and I never thought I would leave Kansas City. I always thought Kansas City will be where I will now die and I even had plans of where I would be, where my body would be plotted somewhere. But all of that got erased because of another opportunity. So I went for a little while to go to Texas, middle of nowhere Texas, and work as a nurse, informaticist there. It was mostly outpatient stuff, right. So I did that for a while.
Speaker 3:And then another opportunity came up and said okay, now, within that, within that that reach that you have for for well, west, west Texas. Another opportunity came up to work in San Francisco. The way I looked at it was what, why, why would you want to do that One? It's expensive there. You have, you hear, all the things that are in san francisco. I said, will you survive there? That was, that was my, the biggest question. I had what I said what's your pool?
Speaker 1:I said well it's.
Speaker 3:It's a new um, it's a new outlet for starting out fresh. Second um, I'm not gonna lie, the money's good, because the reality pay over there is a little bit different. So I said let's talk about that too. But more of the driving issue for me was you're gonna be a small fish in a bigger pond again. You're learning about how they operate and how they affect change across not just a nation but the whole world, because the reach is pretty far. And that's how I landed where I'm at right now Functioning doing nurse informatics.
Speaker 3:A lot of it is a lot of people think. Doing nurse informatics. A lot of it is a lot of people think or, when I introduce myself to patients, I'm a nurse informaticist and what is that? That's the first thing. And the thing is I was curious because it wasn't only the reaction I got from patients, it was also the same information or the same reaction I got from fellow nurses oh really, what does that do? I said because they thought I, they thought I was an outside employee said no, I work with you guys. And yeah, this is what I did. Ah, all right, so everything behind what, what we're using, is what you guys are impacting. Yeah, think about that impact. It's big. Think about that impact. You're actually helping make sure that it's. You know the knowledge that you got from way back in 1991 until now. All that experience comes up so that you can use it in order to predict outcomes later on. And it's still doing that Right.
Speaker 2:So, again so, on the practical level, like so we're talking about charting systems, we're talking about, like, how you move through uh biological systems, cardiac, neuro, pulmonary all the, all the different. You know, you're, you're, you're looking at the entire head-to-toe assessment in that process. What, what?
Speaker 3:uh explain how you are um impacting our lives through, through that process yeah, well, one thing you know um, you see a chart, you think it's. A lot of people think that it's paper. You get the paper form that we used to do before you put it into a machine and it pops, pops out as a form right, there's actually a lot of things behind that form that that that happens. Let's say you decide that you click on this person is an 89 year old. Stop there when you say 89-year-old, that is already grabbing data. This 89-year-old needs what Will need help after the hospitalization. This person already has information or has a condition based on this age that you're already expecting will happen. Expecting will happen.
Speaker 3:This 89-year-old also has supplies. That needs to be you know, that needs to be made available to them during this hospital stay. All of that is already permeating through the system itself and anticipating the care that this patient needs. What I and a lot of nurse informaticists will do, or a lot of people will do, is program that so that it goes to the right department, right Admission kits. What did this 89-year-old need for this admission? It makes it ready for that so that the time that you have you know it also predicts what kind of supplies will be needed to be stocked on an ICU. It also predicts what kind of care plans. The biggest thing is your care plans. Yeah, the care plans. Once you pick your care plans, it's already pre-programmed for you. You didn't even think about it. It all comes from one entity.
Speaker 2:89-year-old value all comes from one entity 89 year old.
Speaker 2:That's kind of what I'm thinking about is, is the application of ai to that uh, to that idea. So you've got 89 year old, and then you've got your gender and then you've got um, you know other data, you. So the more data that you enter, the ai can predict and like, even like, is it possible that in the future of charting, like you put in that data and then it will anticipate what, uh, what problems you're going to have? So, like, right now, when I chart um, I have bundles that I activate, that, okay, this person, let's just say we just did a carotid, so I've got a carotid bundle that I'm going to activate and then it's got all of the assessment needs that I could, all of the assessment needs that are specific to a carotid, all of the assessment needs that are specific to a carotid.
Speaker 2:You know, you've got your A-line, you got all your vascular checks, neuro checks, all the things. So will AI. When you put in more data than just 89 years old, is the AI going to be able to just intuit and pull down that assessment? And it's just going to be just a fluid process. It'll anticipate everything that we need to document. Will we even be documenting, I would say, and more.
Speaker 3:Okay, explain. That's really what I'm asking Just everything that you said, and more.
Speaker 2:We hope you've enjoyed this week's episode.
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Speaker 1:Together, let's continue to redefine nursing and shape a brighter future for those we care for. Until next time, take care, stay curious and keep nurturing those connections and don't forget to be kind to yourself.