Nursing U's Podcast
Nursing U is a podcast co-hosted by Julie and Caleb. We embark on an educational journey to redefine nursing within the modern healthcare landscape.
Our mission is to foster an open and collaborative environment where learning knows no bounds, and every topic—no matter how taboo—is explored with depth and sincerity. We delve into the essence of nursing, examining the intimate and often complex relationships between nurses and their patients amidst suffering and death.
Through our discussions, we aim to highlight the psychological impacts of nursing and caregiving, not only on the caregivers themselves but also on the healthcare system at large.
Our goal is to spark conversations that pave the way for healing and innovation in healthcare, ensuring the well-being of future generations.
'Nursing U' serves as a platform for examining the state of modern civilization through the lens of nursing, tackling issues that range from violence, drugs, and sex to family, compassion and love. We will utilize philosophy, religion and science to provide context and deeper understanding to the topics we tackle.
By seamlessly weaving humor with seriousness, we create a unique tapestry of learning, drawing wisdom from the experiences of elders and the unique challenges faced in nursing today.
Join us at 'Nursing U,' where we cultivate a community eager to explore the transformative power of nursing, education, and conversation in shaping a more whole and healthier world."
Disclaimer:
The hosts of 'Nursing U', Julie Reif and Caleb Schraeder are registered nurses; however, the content provided in this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only. Nothing shared on this podcast should be considered medical advice nor should it be used to diagnose or treat any medical condition. Always seek the guidance of your doctor or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition or health concerns. The views expressed on this podcast are personal opinions and do not represent the views of our employers or our professional licensing bodies.
Nursing U's Podcast
Ep #017 - From Hidden Grief to Healing: Navigating Emotional Overload in Nursing
What if the hidden grief nurses experience is the unspoken burden shaping their lives? Join us, Julie and Caleb, as we navigate the emotional labyrinth of nursing, from the haunting stories of young nurses on the COVID-19 frontlines to the emotional toll of managing intense grief while striving for resilience. Through our conversations, we lay bare the often-unrecognized grief that shapes the nursing profession, underscoring the urgent need for better support systems.
Reflecting on personal stories, Julie shares her own journey through the heart-wrenching experience of handling a deceased infant and the challenge of processing these emotions without detachment. These narratives reveal how unresolved grief can seep into personal lives, igniting a quest for meaningful coping mechanisms. From the necessity of compartmentalization to the risks of emotional escapism, we discuss the critical importance of finding healthy outlets for trauma and grief, with humor serving as both a balm and a bridge to understanding.
As we explore the challenges of maintaining a balanced life, we spotlight the overstimulation nurses face and its impact on family dynamics. We emphasize the importance of self-care and the power of setting boundaries, whether it means carving out moments of quiet or creating personal rituals for closure. This episode not only acknowledges the intoxicating aspects of nursing but also questions the sacrifices made in the pursuit of professional success. Tune in to hear our candid discussion on transitioning away from nursing and exploring a healthier work-life balance, all while embracing the shared struggles and triumphs of this profound profession.
Hi, I'm Julie.
Speaker 2:And I'm Caleb. Welcome to Nursing U, the podcast where we redefine nursing in today's healthcare landscape. Join Julie and I as we step outside the box on an unconventional healing journey.
Speaker 1:Together, we're diving deep into the heart of nursing, exploring the intricate relationships between caregivers and patients with sincerity and depth.
Speaker 2:Our mission is to create an open and collaborative experience where learning is expansive and fun.
Speaker 1:From the psychological impacts of nursing to the larger implications on the healthcare system. We're sparking conversations that lead to healing and innovation.
Speaker 2:We have serious experience and we won't pull our punches. But we'll also weave in some humor along the way, because we all know laughter is often the best medicine.
Speaker 1:It is, and we won't shy away from any topic, taboo or not, from violence and drugs to family and love, we're tackling it all.
Speaker 2:Our nursing knowledge is our base, but we will be bringing insights from philosophy, religion, science and art to deepen our understanding of the human experience.
Speaker 1:So, whether you're a nurse, a healthcare professional or just someone curious about the world of caregiving, this podcast is for you.
Speaker 2:One last thing, a quick disclaimer before we dive in. While we're both registered nurses, nothing we discuss here should be taken as medical advice. Always consult with your doctor or a qualified healthcare provider for any medical concerns you may have. The views expressed here are our own and don't necessarily reflect those of our employers or licensing bodies.
Speaker 1:So let's get started on this journey together. Welcome to Nursing U, where every conversation leads to a healthier world.
Speaker 2:So we're going to read what you wrote, or what you what AI wrote.
Speaker 1:I guess yeah, what I got, yeah.
Speaker 2:Read what you wrote, Because then it kind of goes down and it talks about.
Speaker 1:Read what you wrote, because then it kind of goes down and it talks about you know, here are some strategies nurses can use to cope with this unrecognized grief, and I think that's what it is, that's you, don't? We are not visualizing the grief as it comes into our bodies. We are not visualizing the grief as it comes into our bodies. We recognize the grief when it manifests into an unpleasant situation in our lives, whatever that may be. And then I don't think, a lot of times we recognize it as the held grief, the held mourning and the energy of situations. Because, just like that says it's you. Well, like, I worked yesterday surgery and I got let go at like 11, 30 or 11 45, but they needed someone to be on call for the inpatient unit because there was no patients. But if they get an admission, they needed a second nurse. I was like, that's fine, till four o'clock, I can do that, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I went to walmart. Of course they could get a patient. I was like, oh, okay, I'm going back. Uh, which was fine because it was on call pay and I knew I wasn't going to be the one to take the patient, I was the second, uh, but anyways, I worked with this girl. Things are always just for for a reason, like they're just for what is going to happen. She lives South of the hospital our hospital and it's just easier for her so and she's PRN, so she's picking up. She's on this kind of PRN contract that they have. You know they like try to manipulate you to get you to work and they try to make you think that it's like for your best and that you're getting something out of it. But anyway, it's like free labor but but she isn't. So she's managing working the system, as I told her to, but she's young, she's maybe even she got her nurse. She went to nursing school. I think she graduated in like 2021 and then worked on the COVID unit right into it.
Speaker 1:So anyway, she was telling me a story. You know she was like I was the most seasoned nurse on the unit and I was like two months out of school. Yeah, that's how they do it. And she told me too that during her preceptor miss, you know there or when she was being precepted during her orientation her preceptor-ness, you know there, or when she was being precepted during her orientation, her preceptor it was the height of COVID, so her preceptor had like five patients and rather than having like three or four of their own, she had five. And then this girl, the new nurse, had just a couple of patients on her own. She was going to be on her own with those but yet still be, still be in orientation and have a preceptor. So it's all bullshit and lies, right, right, yeah. So they're just taking advantage. Anybody will do like whatever, and I get it during COVID, that's fine, but it's not right still.
Speaker 1:So she told me that she went to go check on her first patient and when she walked in there the patient was barely breathing, was on a PCA pump and she was like, oh, holy shit, she knew something was wrong, she knew she would help and she was like I sat down there on the bed and I counted his breaths and it was like four and I was like she goes and I knew I needed to do something. So she goes out to the nurse's station. No one's there, everyone's giving bed. Oh, oh, I know what it was. This will make it better. She ended her 12 hour shift orientation and they were like can you stay a little bit longer and you can keep like your patients? You know when you're, when you're orienting with a preceptor, as you get towards the end, you kind of take care of your patients and she's just looking over your shoulder. You might not get a full load, but you're, those are yours. So she kept maybe two or three of her own patients after the shift was over, with no preceptor.
Speaker 1:So she goes in there, find this, goes back out to the nurse's station no, no nurses there, they're all giving beds. That report no aid, no, nothing. So she pages the doctor and basically it's like you know, I'm getting ready to give Narcan, can you please put in orders? I, you know I need I shut the PCA off. He's, you know, it's amulet, blah, blah, blah. You know, gives her good assessment and the doctor gives her orders. So she goes, she goes in there and she goes to Narcan. She was like I gave it five times, julie, five times, and the doctor came up and then and the patient was okay. So good, good, good for you, good for learning your instinct. She was like after that I was so traumatized by that I went in the break room and just started crying, oh, oh.
Speaker 1:I said well, you were releasing, that was a lot of energy you had, that was a lot that you had to deal with. You were using your mind. It's, that's very scary. And and she said, from then on, for like the next two years, they called her cry baby and shut up no, oh my gosh, like she was known as her cry baby Shut up.
Speaker 2:No, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:Like she was known as the cry baby.
Speaker 2:I just heard a similar story. A really smart girl, a friend of mine's daughter, just graduated nursing school this year and was so excited she got hired on at the ICU. And she got there and they just tortured her. They just tortured her. It was never about the care she provided, it was how she made the bed, it was how she cleaned this or organized that. It was all bullshit. They just didn't want her for whatever reason. It's just so wrong I mean but?
Speaker 2:but it's a double-edged sword because you know, we've talked about it before. All of those salty, leathery old nurses that pushed us to be better made us better yes, but they pushed us in a way that, like challenged our mental capacity that's true, it is true patient and challenged our.
Speaker 2:They weren't just down and right nasty they were opposite uh, I, I know I had, uh, I had there was, there was one, and you know who I'm talking about I know she had. She had when I quit after all those years, there there's someone, someone other than me. I never once went to HR for anyone. Someone else went to HR five times for the abuse that she put me through five times. Isn't that crazy? So crazy and it was spiteful. It was just to be mean.
Speaker 1:Well, so there you have it. But, you know the ones, god, I don't know. Does it make a difference? Is it necessary? It's like hazing is what it is, and does it make you stronger. Maybe she remembers that. I mean, could you be the nurse that you are today without having some of that hazing going on? I guess, when you hear it back, I was never one to haze yeah, more that it makes me sick when I hear that for another nurse. But you know it, just just to hear.
Speaker 1:It's just so stressful and yeah you hold that in because you don't want to be called the cry baby.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:You don't and so you hold it in because you have to maintain this kind of professionalism, you know, and we're not just run of the mill Like it takes a lot to get through nursing school and it takes a lot to be able to continue to work on the same unit and and thrive at it, and you can't be, you can't be so emotional. I mean I say I wasn't the mean one, but and I don't think I really ever said anything, but I could not tolerate the criers I guess I would say, yeah, like you go go off the unit because you're not doing, don't cry in the room, don't come to the nurse's station and cry, take care of yourself and go out, take a minute and then come back. But I kind of feel like I wasn't as gracious as I could have been because I didn't know either. But if I were to go back now it would be different, I think.
Speaker 2:I mean, I've kind of almost lost the ability to cry at this point. I it's, it's something that, um, I recognize, that I like, I know that I need a big cry, like I need a soul cry, like I need a soul cry, like, um, just let it out. But I don't know how to do it because I've stuffed for so many years that would be an interesting experiment.
Speaker 1:I definitely cry a lot more now, or or well up emotionally, uh that I'm off my antidepressant sure because I never cried I never, cried, even about patience and even about really like tremendously emotional, you know like handling the dead baby, dressing the dead baby, going to get her out of the morgue multiple times during my shift because we had the mom in the icu, she had bled out and had to have surgery and then we got her, she was vented and then she was extubated and I had her back-to back night and I knew that I was going through the. What I was doing was like I cannot believe you're dressing this dead baby. This is crazy.
Speaker 1:But, it was like you couldn't, it couldn't penetrate, you know.
Speaker 2:Or maybe I mean it could. What do you mean?
Speaker 1:it couldn't penetrate like the grief that that mom felt for that baby and I had kids too at the time I it it's almost like I was able to stay outside of it so that it didn't affect me emotionally and probably unconsciously chose that because it probably would have taken me down, like I probably would have had to just leave work, and so I don't know, I've cried about that baby since then, having thought about it and talking about it.
Speaker 1:I actually talked about it with my mom because she was a labor and delivery nurse for a long, long time and had to kind of do some of those similar things, and so, um, her and I just got into a discussion about it and and she kind of reminded me like how, how deep that is, you know, the, the soul and just the mother and the father, and the grief and and and what I provided for them. I provided like this kind of gateway so that they had the opportunity to continue to see the baby, and we couldn't leave her out very long because then she would get weird, so we had to put her back into the room the would get weird the baby.
Speaker 1:What do you mean? Well, because as she warmed up, she looked she wasn't alive. I mean, she was, you know, and so we couldn't leave her out for very long, because she just started turning weird colors oh god yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean. So I'm still kind of stuck on what you you know what you said about not being able to penetrate Like I feel like could not not penetrate, so deeply. Yeah, like it penetrated so deeply that, like a part of you had to form around it. Okay, had to form around it.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, and that maybe, and that that is another way to look at it that it could, it could have penetrated me so deeply that I guess, when I think of like, I asked, why wasn't I crying? Like, why wasn't I crying with the mom, why was I? How was I able to do? I did go sit in the chapel for a little while. I was bothered, I guess, the more I think about it, I was really bothered. I mean, how could you not be? You just keep going? I just sat there and I think I just asked for strength for me to continue to be able to care for the patient and do what she needed done, which was care for the patient, and do what she needed done, which was so I'm, I, I'm.
Speaker 2:This is such a I had so many thoughts when, when you sent this topic, because I think that we can't, like I can, I can think of situations similar to this that I've experienced that were so far beyond anything that I could have ever expected to experience in life, and for that reason, I didn't have not a formulated response, I didn't have any context for it, I didn't know how to like, how am I supposed to respond in this situation? It's so fucked, like, it's so fucked, and I don't even know Like there's, like it's, it's kind of like. It's kind of like what I've said before about when I tell my friends and family about the experiences that I've had, they cannot, no matter how, no matter how intricate and precise the words that I use could, could ever be, there's no precision with which I could communicate that experience that would make them experience it. Yeah, it's not possible and it's, and so there's no is no, like you know, because we compartmentalize, we innately like, we have to compartmentalize, like as nurses experiencing the things that we experience. We have to compartmentalize and it's like some of these experiences, there is no compartment for it and you don't know what to do. And I think I I mean especially you're there's. There's a couple of things that it brought up for me the, the baby is representing life potential. It's representing potential and one of the thoughts that I've had.
Speaker 2:I recently had someone say something to me that sparked this idea. It was a young person that was talking about their mom and said she comes home from who's a nurse, comes home and she wants she just sits in the dark or she just wants her boyfriend. And there were, you know, this is a young person and and this person, um, I don't think sex was even a part of this person's consciousness. To be able to, to say that, to, to, to imply that to me, yeah, but my, that's where my mind went is that this person is just, you know, carrying trauma and grief and the, the stress, and it goes to sex, and and the response is sex. And it caused me to think, like when we have these experiences that have no place to go, and because you're holding a dead baby, and so it brings into question your own existence, your own potential, and when that part of us is challenged.
Speaker 2:I think that it's natural to throw yourself into one, the procreative state, and to a place where that can all just go away, because when you're so focused on the intimate act, all of that is gone, all of that. You don't have to confront that compartment that you can't find, that you don't know where to put. So you throw yourself into intimacy because it's a procreative act, it's a very creative act, it'll be crude. She's crazy, so she must be good in bed. Or's crazy, so she must be good in bed. Or he's crazy, he must be good in bed.
Speaker 2:Right, like that idea that maybe this person, maybe, maybe, maybe, cause there's probably some truth in that. I think there's some truth in that Maybe the maybe it's the, the, the inability, like, the inability to contextualize their experience, allows them to, to just let, to be free in in that way. Right, and it makes perfect sense. I mean some of these there. I can't remember the name of the um, of the instagram page, but essentially it was a um, a tell-all, an anonymous tell-all, and the stories about nurses and sex were outrageous. They were outrageous. I couldn't believe it. Wow, um, and and. So that when I saw, when I read through that Instagram page. Um, when I read through that Instagram page, these ideas started formulating then, and I think there's probably some really valid truth to it. When your existence is brought into question, it makes sense to respond in a procreative way sense, to respond in a procreative way.
Speaker 1:Just just a release um an energetic release, a place where you don't it's not required to think about anything.
Speaker 2:It's just your bodies.
Speaker 1:You're just going, it's just natural to you, because you don't have to think and and it's just a form, a form of release, just like it feels like when you take a drink. You know, in that first 20 minutes.
Speaker 1:Or I've never gambled, but I can imagine that it would be similar to that that that dopamine release, and I mean, imagine all the chemicals that are released, you know, during sex, oh sure, I mean. Imagine all the chemicals that are released, you know, during sex, oh sure, so it's. I mean, you know you're caretaking for yourself, but also, if you don't kind of deal and that's a very weird generic word, but with so if you're always burying or hiding from the emotions that are changing due to your external circumstances by using an outlet or going to that release place, whatever you, whatever it is your choices, then you have some relief in the moment, but all of the shit just continues to pile up.
Speaker 1:So, it's like you have release in the moment. There has to be. If you could have both, I guess, is what I'm trying to say like if you could have the release because they, you know, in in therapies and energetic work and stuff they talk about. Well, and here's a perfect example. So an animal who has just run from a threat. When they're now, there's no more threats so they shake their body.
Speaker 1:You know they shake it out. Well, they're shaking all of that energy and all those neurotransmitters in the, in the, and this, everything that's surging through your body. When you're in that like, like state, they naturally release it.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Where humans don't, and they might do that and feel the feel, a release, during whatever they, whatever they're choosing alcohol, sex, you know whatever whatever. But is it? Is that it? Or? I mean for me, me, it seemed to, my choice was alcohol, so I would drink to release, but I never dealt like, I never did any shaking. I just got the feeling. But I didn't actually make my body intentionally release that energy and so I feel like it just stored and stored, and stored, and stored until there was no more room right and thus you know you're like everybody's breakdown is different.
Speaker 1:It looks true, or you just god, you just still struggle and you try to, you just try to keep going. And I mean I think, I think about. I think about going back to like an icu. I think about it every time I walk in a hospital, like, or when I look on our er little board and then I look at the bigger hospitals er board it's like this long and all the colors, and I'm just like, oh, my God, like it really, that it really. I just I think.
Speaker 2:Well, it's like all the all, the little, all of the all of the things that need to pay attention, that you, that the nurse needs to pay attention to those boards. You know they're color coded so you can recognize the thing that you need to recognize quicker, and the the noises have to be different than the other noises so that you can hear them, so you can know that. You know, you know what's alerting you, and it's like all these different systems are are screaming at you to and competing for your attention. It's just crazy, it's so much so much I mean I had a.
Speaker 2:I had a mini anxiety attack last night. I I was looking at the instagram for the first time in a couple of days and, um, someone sent me something and it had a. It had ventilator noises. Oh, it was so it was. It was a nursing account, that uh, the girl was like uh talking to her partner, do you mind if I put on some white noise? And she and she turned out on ventilator noises. It's like oh my god, I can't breathe. It's so terrible.
Speaker 1:Oh, bb, bb oh yeah, but you know these days, because I had a little bit of a mini anxiety attack yesterday too, it didn't have to do with nursing, it had to do with I just am in a season of lots of things to do and this school trimester is a lot. It's the heaviest one of the whole. Whatever it is all the semesters, this is the worst.
Speaker 1:It's just the heaviest. It's. It's there's a lot to do and we're also trying to paint our kitchen ceiling, so everything is displaced. And last week I was like I'll put the laundry away next week and you know there's, there's the plastic sheets hanging over all of our cab. Anyways, I just walked in and I was like like I feel like I couldn't breathe. I had to take off my clothes from there, my shoes. I had to go outside and and before I I was really realizing what was going on, joey's choir gown was just like on the couch, wadded up. So I walked down there and I was like what is it? And I picked it up, like this needs to be hung. I hung it in his closet. He's like no mom, no mom, I'm hanging up, I gotta take it. And I was just like so, but fairly quickly and quicker than before. I real I was like wow, julie, what's going on with you? Let's take a few minutes and figure this out.
Speaker 1:And you know I, my environment, affects me a lot. So if it's organized and things are like I have no more underwear in my drawer, like I'm, I'm done. So I like dig through the basket and it, that doesn't matter for maybe some people, but for me I was just like it was too much. But I think now, don't you agree, we can kind of recognize, to recognize what is going on with you, whereas for me before that just would have been like a rampage. I would have been pissed the rest of the night. I probably would have just had to go to bed Like I wouldn't have been able to deal with anybody, you know, and they would have just rolled their eyes and been like, oh God, you know, mom's in a mood kind of like that.
Speaker 1:But, I was able to recognize, ask myself what's going on, oh, oh, okay, and then be like see, all right. So then Joey came up later and I, I just said to him I was like you know, but this is this and this is this, and I said I apologize for my behavior, I'm sorry, that was how I presented all that. I could have done that in a different way, but but. But I just thought that's growth, Sure, To be able to recognize that we, the things that even give us anxiety.
Speaker 2:Well, I know that I'm, I'm, you know, I'm at the hospital four days a week and I'm overstimulated. All those sounds and lights that are are competing for my attention are so overwhelming. And I come home and um, you know, I've got a teenager that, uh, is kind of on her own program and um, and if she starts pushing my buttons it's, you know, it's kind of on I, I can't handle it and um, and a lot of times I just go into my room and and she can't understand that. You know, um, I came home the other day and the dishes I've been asking for two days, I, I clean my dishes. It's like you need to clean your dishes, you're old enough.
Speaker 2:And um, you know, I I wanted to just carry them into a room and put them on our floor, but I didn't, I held myself back, you know it's, it's just like it just pushed me over, over my edge and um, and you know we had a fight and and she can't understand that, like something so simple as dishes, I mean it doesn't even matter. I mean, yeah, I mean it does like she's old enough to know better and they should have been cleaned up, you know, right away. They, they shouldn't be sitting out and, um, you're not a baby anymore and but I I went to my room and I was just like you didn't have to, i't know, you didn't have to get so mad and um, and I think that that problem that happens more than it should, um, and I think I'm just so overstimulated in my day, just like that, just like the nurse I was talking about earlier, she needs to sit in a dark room. Like I need to sit in a dark room. I can't have any more stimulation today, and and so, and like, what does that like?
Speaker 2:So we get aggressive and mean that that to me it seems like, as we're talking about that, as I'm talking about that, it seems like it's pushing away the people that we love so that we can have a safe space for ourselves to decompress, and I think that that is like for the people that are going to listen to this that are family members of nurses. I think that is one of the most important takeaways that they could hear us talk about is that your family member that is over stimulated and overexposed to extreme circumstances just needs quiet, yeah, just needs to be left alone for a little bit and needs to be approached with some gentleness and and kindness, cause we've been taking on a lot, a lot, a lot.
Speaker 1:Well, I think in the beginning you know when, the when nurses come home and need that, they can't really express why, or it's just they're kind of I mean, we're like, we're like 15 episodes deep into long format conversation about this and we still haven't fully articulated it.
Speaker 1:I know, I know it. So you know family until they can explain it, because I sometimes I think we don't even know why we need it. I mean, yeah, oh, it was a stressful shift. Okay, you know, but your family, like we talked about, nobody can really know.
Speaker 1:If two nurses works, lived together, you'd be like see you in a bit, you know, but it's a very hard because you know dads want to be dads and moms want to be moms, and so there's this internal struggle of, oh good, I'm not at work, I can be home with my baby, I can be home with my baby, I can be home with my spouse, we can go do things, but the hospital does not leave your brain like that. It doesn't leave when you pull out of the parking lot. It is in there, it is affecting you, it is in your DNA almost. It's very, very challenging and I would probably there's lots of other careers that I'm sure are very similar in that and it just it takes some finesse. It takes grace, giving the person grace, and then also for that person to learn to be responsible with accepting the things that have been shown to them that they need for self-care. So if what you need is quiet time, when you get home and you need to just be in a dark room being able to articulate that to the people that you love, so that it's presented as something that you're doing to take care of yourself, so you can be better for when you are around them.
Speaker 1:The kids don't really understand that a lot. No, she doesn't understand. No, I don't know. It's hard Cause you, you know so. So we, we push ourselves. We push ourselves a lot. We push ourselves out of that. We push self-care to the back. We push the things that we should be doing to take care of our minds and our mental health. They're lower on the total.
Speaker 2:They're lower priority yeah totally. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And it's almost out of survival, because you're trying to survive and you want to. You, you want to have the family and you want to have the kids and you want to be there. You want to have interesting conversations with your teenagers and you want to, you know, explore things with them, but it's, you know, when you're working a job that is so demanding, I mean, can you have both? I don't know, because I only work at the hospital one day a week, for that very reason.
Speaker 1:And the other job that I do is very, very subdued. You know, it's the little mini PICU, pediatric acute care, sat, monitor the vent, the trach, the feeding, but it's just one and it's quiet and it's just him and I and it's very controlled and that's that's what I have to have. I could not go back to an environment. So that's why I'm asking can, can you have it both? Can you work in a crazy environment, in a nursing, you know, fast paced, even on a med surgery, you know, with some patients at night? Can you do that and have a healthy mental state that you can have amazing interactions with your family?
Speaker 2:I don't know I can only think of one nurse that I've worked with in the in the last 20 years that I I look at her and of course I don't super close with her, um, but at least it would appear on the outside that she's been able to do it. There's only one that I can think of.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Maybe we should invite her on.
Speaker 1:Let's do it, because I, I would I mean, you know, again, we don't have all the answers, we only have our own stories and what we're doing to try to heal ourselves from within and, you know, getting other people's perspectives on things that have worked for them, because leaving the hospital should not be the only option. You should not have to leave because I think you can say it, I really enjoyed when I was at work, when I wasn't there most of the time, I enjoyed it. I love using my brain, I love the excitement, I love the. You know there was a lot of things that were shitty about it, but I really did. I mean, I stayed there for so long. I really did like it, but I I didn't like the way I was on the outside.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean that's, I've, you know, I've said that, I've said this before, like the. Well, I mean that's, you know, I've said that, I've said this before, like the, I think I said it in one of the early episodes. I was talking about the ICU boys, the CVICU guys, you know, that are so arrogant and think they have all the answers and know everything, and that stereotype is. It's very funny. The memes are so funny about that.
Speaker 2:So great, it's very funny, the memes are so funny about that so great but it's that you know, because we have so much working knowledge, we have the answers. We do have the answers. That's what you're enjoying is that you have real problems and real solutions, and it's real time.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that is intoxicating. So that was the intro.
Speaker 1:Right, right, that's a 40-minute intro. Our topic was pretty much grief and the grief that nurses deal with in their career, and so this is what we wrote. Nurses often carry a hidden burden of grief from their experiences on the job, particularly in acute care settings. This grief can accumulate over time, especially when they suppress or ignore it in order to maintain professionalism. Because nurses are trained to prioritize patient care over their own emotions, they may not realize the extent of their guilt until it manifests in physical or emotional ways. And so then we're going to talk about ways that you can cope with the unrecognized grief.
Speaker 1:So you don't really know it's there. You don't feel like you're sad and grieving. You're not grieving like you lost a pet or you lost your grandmother. It's different. It's a different kind of grief. It's like a grief for society. It's a grief for all of the traumatic things that people have to go through. It's a grief of having to leave your family and go do that job. It's a loss of something to to gain something else. That job, it's a loss of something to to gain something else. It's very, very you know it's like why do you have to give up?
Speaker 2:something to have something I don't know. It's just another one of the paradoxes of our reality yeah, yeah I mean but and and back. You know the, the idea is the answer. Right and there you go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, one would be. The first step in coping with grief is recognizing that it exists. Nurses are often expected to be strong and resilient, but it's essential to acknowledge that witnessing death and suffering and loss takes a toll. Knowledge that witnessing death and suffering and loss takes a toll. Nurses need to allow themselves to feel sadness, frustration or anger and understand that these are normal emotional responses to their experiences. And so what comes to mind when I read that is almost saying to yourself this is, this is rough, like this, what I just did. That was hard and I may feel a little grief about that. Or it's possible that this may affect me, maybe not right now the rest of my shift, because you know I mean shit. We can go to patient and 10 minutes and be right back in there doing your job. You go, boom, save the life right back in there yeah get rid of the er, you know.
Speaker 1:So it may not be in that moment, but almost like a re-evaluation of your shift afterwards, like did some hard. You did some hard things today, julie you. You experienced a lot. That was hard, because losing anyone is hard putting anybody in a body bag is hard yes and it's hard because it is the end of a life.
Speaker 1:You know, a soul has left the earth, and not only just that but all the circumstances around it. So, dealing with the family's emotions, dealing with things that maybe you think maybe should have been better and maybe he wouldn't have died, you know, should we have coded him longer if we would have intervened earlier? If the doctor would have called me back, all those things that we think you know that all goes into a patient dying or just suffering. I mean, how many times have you said this is ridiculous.
Speaker 2:Like this patient, we need to stop.
Speaker 1:We need to stop this is where he's rotting from the inside yeah we need to let this go we need to yeah, yeah that, those feelings, what do you do with that, you know?
Speaker 1:and so maybe your suggestion would be like, journaling about it. And if you're not a journaler, because I, I try to journal and sometimes I'm just afraid of, like, what's going to come out and that I'm just it's going to take me off the rail. Sometimes I can do a good job of it, but it's probably when I need it the most is where I I back away from it because I'm, it scares me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I don't know, one of the one of the things that was coming up for me is the idea that I've shared in the past about Piaget's object permanence. Like that we are trained to believe that. You know, we have to be trained to believe. Like our base is that it doesn't exist. So the baby comes in the world and as it's developing, it comes to understand through repetition that something has permanence.
Speaker 2:And so at the very beginning of our lives, we had this idea that there was, there are things that are permanent, had this idea that there was, there are things that are permanent and and that is like such a because it's so early and it is so deep that something can be permanent. And then, as we continue to grow, we realize things aren't permanent. And then we have to square these two, two things together and then we're in this position where things are so dramatically not permanent, so dramatically unstable, and and so it is. We are, our lives are so tenuous. We don't even know it, but we are constantly reminded of that. There has to be a grief just for that yeah, it's almost hard to put into words I mean, that was the best I could do is just, I mean, I and I don't.
Speaker 2:I don't know that I landed the the plane on all wheels yet, but that's my best approximation.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, I mean again, it's just it's hard to. That's why it's hard to talk about. So it's hard for even nurses to put into the words, to talk about it. But I guess if you can do your best by putting words down on paper or just exploring is there anything about that that you are feeling a certain way about? Maybe just start recognizing those things that come up for you rather than, like me, just like shut the door in the closet, hurry up. You know I I didn't want to think about work. I didn't want to, I did not want to reflect.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:I didn't.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:I didn't. I only wanted to deal with it for those hours that I was at work and then I literally like shut the fucking light off.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, I mean, sometimes that's all you can do.
Speaker 1:I know, I know.
Speaker 2:Until you can't.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then you end up, like us, where you're thinking about it.
Speaker 1:And are so affected by it.
Speaker 2:And are still affected Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, death. In a hospital setting is often rushed, with little time for closure. Nurses can create their own personal rituals to honor the lives of patients who have passed. They don't have to be elaborate. Simple actions like taking a moment of silence lighting a candle that's funny, not in the hospital.
Speaker 2:Yeah right.
Speaker 1:Maybe you could do it at home, or even saying a prayer, just providing, basically providing yourself a sense of closure, writing letters to deceased patients, and this would be more like. Think of those nurses who like oncology, who have to take care of those patients every day, every day, every day. And we didn't. I didn't experience.
Speaker 2:I only experienced that one time, kind of through COVID, but before COVID it was just one time, because once you got better, you go out of the ICU then you're on the floor, we I'm sorry, I'm not even paying attention, I'm I'm dreaming about us designing a candle, a grief candle, oh, and then making it merch, yeah, like you know, nursing you grief candle where we can yeah, just one thing and and then people actually have a tool for that, for processing that. I don't know.
Speaker 1:Just an idea. Well, a journal and a briefcase.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and a mug and a mug yeah because we need our coffee, because we aren't stimulated enough.
Speaker 1:Or a tea, a tea mug.
Speaker 2:Yeah, mug. It also reminds me of the idea of having nurses write in, write their stories and then doing a ceremony of the dead, our own little ceremony of the dead. I'll build a like a funeral pyre. We can put all the notes on, and then we'll just do it over video. Have a group in person or video.
Speaker 1:Or a local video Record it. Anybody anywhere could write in their story that they were just wanting to release. Even with the intention of release the act of the act of the energy, the release of the energy of it, it.
Speaker 1:That does actually make a difference no, I I've experienced that yeah, and it seems silly and kind of like how we talked about positivity, but it it actually does. It actually makes, it can make it. It can make a difference. You know, seeing, seeing that burn and then getting kind of a new slate like that is no longer. It is no longer because now it is. It is a whole different substance. It's not what it was before. Rituals, I mean that's they're so old but it's they're very powerful if you can find some that work, that work for you and and give you meaning and allow you to. You know, whatever your intention is for the ritual, you know it's similar to. I mean, it's just so hard to you know. They talk about debriefing, but I think all of this is debriefing in a way.
Speaker 2:We're debriefing for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I just I don't know. I would love to experience an immediate debrief.
Speaker 2:Well, the last couple that I ran, we did an immediate debrief, but it was purely objective. We did an immediate debrief, but it was purely objective. It was just an analysis of what happened and what everyone thought went well and what everyone thought didn't go well, and it was, I mean, the objective aspect of it. And you know, I would say there was. You know, the one thing that was said was that you know, we did everything we could to give him the opportunity to revive and he didn't, and there's nothing more that we could have done. And that was comforting. Yeah, that is comforting, yeah, that is comforting. Even though the rest of it was all objective, that one statement that was said was like yeah, no, that's exactly right, we did everything.
Speaker 2:There was nothing more that we could have done.
Speaker 1:The codes that I've been in, lots of them, but lots of those codes I can, I can, I can remember the physician basically, basically offering does anybody else have any ideas? Always and and that that's a piece of it, and so if you're in a code, take that, take that, those words, because that he's kind of putting a. He or she is putting a like a final, like a finality to it yeah, before it's like we are trying everything yeah, we're open to try anything that you can suggest.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, so at least peace of mind for that situation. You know it doesn't. It can't change anything leading up to any of your thoughts about his care prior to, or why this happened, or who didn't do what, or who you know, but at least for the moment of you know, is there anything that anybody feels like we should do before we, before we call it and I think those are very powerful words that can, should be used for processing, and I don't think a lot of people think of it like that. They're just like, oh okay, well, you know, no, I don't know you, you no, you know. But it's really more of a if you could use it as kind of a ritual, like we've done everything we can for this human and it's their time.
Speaker 2:It's their time. How many codes do you think that we've time? How many codes do you think that we've run? How many think we ran together? I mean, how would you ever figure it out? How would you ever begin to calculate?
Speaker 1:I don't know, because some weeks I'd code two people a shift, yeah, multiples of your shift, Like five or six a week. But then sometimes now you need a week and you'd be like what's going on. Yeah, nobody's that. In what's going on you might get a little reprieve.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I uh I've tried, I and I that.
Speaker 1:I was in the ICU, I always felt proud and I feel proud to say I'm I'm retired now. Really, I am a retired ICU nurse because it leaves it as it is, you know. I don't have to miss it, I don't have to pretend like I never was and and I think it gives context to our experience you know, if you say I'm a retired police officer, I'm a retired firefighter, Like you're like Whoa, okay, You've been through a lot.
Speaker 1:You know, or I was in the military or I was, you know, I went overseas or I was in a war, you know, that's kind of I mean it's funny we compare nursing to a war but it is kind of what it feels like. It was like we were in the trenches for the time that we were there, and now you know, and now we're not. I'm not. Do you feel like you're in the trenches still, or it different and where?
Speaker 2:oh, no, not, not like we were, not, like we were. No, I mean I'm, I'm still, I'm still right there, but it's nothing compared to what we, yeah, what we went through, like my early career, like I, I just don't put myself in the position. I mean I'm still definitely in the position. I. I mean, like you know, I just had a pretty traumatic uh code and uh recently and I'm still exposed to a lot of violence. So, in that way, yeah, I'm still very much on the front line, but the people aren't uh, they aren't sick Like they were sick when we were working together.
Speaker 2:That that was exceptional and I have no desire to be in that setting. I, I, I don't, I, I, I could, I could, I could do. I mean, I did it, I did, I did go into those settings during COVID and I was able to perform. It's just so second nature. You don't even think about it. You get put in that situation and you're gonna, you're gonna, you're gonna do the things. Because there's like, because just the, the innate knowing that we have from the experience that we have makes us immediately valuable. We know what to do, we know it needs to be done right now and we just do it, and but to voluntarily subject myself to that now I'm not interested.
Speaker 2:I really I you know the conversation we were having about, you know the interactions that I have with my daughter I really I feel like if I want, if I want to have a relationship with my family in the future, I have to. I have to leave nursing. I feel like I have to. I have to leave this thing that I'm tremendously skilled at. The problem is, I don't know what else to do.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm a great woodworker, but I I made up my own thing, like I invented my own thing. Nobody, nobody cares, Nobody knows about it, and it's so niche that I have been unable to make it successful in financial terms that it would give me the freedom to do that. So I have to find a new path. I have to do something different. If I'm going to, you know, keep things together with my family, and I think it's probably time, I think it's just time I need to step away from nursing. There are days where I'm angry. In one of the earlier episodes I held back and I said I can't say that out loud, and it was. I still feel uncomfortable saying it, but what I wanted to say and I'm, I'm saying, I'll say it now I look forward to the day when the only the only dick I have to touch is my own.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean there's a lot to be said there, because that that is something that nurses do a lot of oh my god, I just I avoid it as much as possible.
Speaker 2:It's just I don't like starting catheters. I used to like the procedural element of it, when somebody's I don't mind it so much. I had this old guy that was in so much pain and you know when there's like a real relief and they're so thankful like that's, you know there's a satisfaction that comes from doing that work. You know, um, but I just I'm just kind of over it. I enjoy talking about our experiences, but I need to I. But what do I do? I think I'm, I'm so I don't want to say pigeonholed, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm in this strange place where I'm tremendously talented and and don't know how to, how to reroute that knowledge and talent.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that's where I was a couple of years ago. It's like I'm wasting my skills, my skills are not being used and I just had to mentally wrestle with it and say you used them a lot. You used their skills a lot and it's okay, kind of like when the old man at the old mechanic has to just put his shit down.
Speaker 1:He can't hold it anymore. He doesn't have a grip like he used to, and I just had to make it okay in my mind like it, you, that was your era and your era is over.
Speaker 1:I felt the same way, when you know we we used to go out all the time downtown and to the bars and the and you know your friends and it's so fun and you have but and then we moved out to the country and then we had kids and it was like a grieving process for that era it's just not. It's not that anymore. It's just not that anymore. And then you have the era when your kids are little and you get the Halloween and the costumes and you're buying their clothes, and so there's that era.
Speaker 1:So I just had to look at it like that era. You were so great at it and I am thankful that I was there and that I did that, and now it's someone else's turn. And now I'm going to do. I'm going to do this and that knowledge that will never leave me. I'm not going to give it up. I'm just not going to subject myself to that kind of environment anymore.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't want to subject myself to that type of environment anymore, and so you know this job with the hospice.
Speaker 1:Maybe that will come to something. So the maybe, the more you get to work. Maybe that's your transition.
Speaker 2:I don't know, I, I, I the, you know it, I, I would, you know, I would like to do something. That is where I see. You know that that was part of the choice to go to PACU was, um, that people get up and I get to see them be better. You know, perhaps I think I would like to see more of that, more of people just being normal people and not me, like you know are. They are their fingers clubbing, are they still? I mean, I still notice things, but I don't want to be so hyper diligent about other people.
Speaker 2:Shit man, yesterday, last night, my son and I were driving down the road and it was in my folks neighborhood and she's laying on the ground bleeding. She had fallen, her dog had tripped her up and she's laying on the ground bleeding. She had fallen, her dog had tripped her up and she fell. And um, I stopped in my little guy before I was even stopped. He had the door out door open and jumping out to go help. Like he didn't even think twice, like I was, I was like, oh, wow, it's right there, he's a little, he's a little hero. Uh and um, and we, we stopped and we we helped her.
Speaker 2:You know, I, I did a quick exam and then, um, we took her back to my folks house and I, I cleaned her up and and, uh, cleaned her wound and I stayed with her for about an hour to make sure, you know, she was adamant, she was okay that she had just bumped her nose, and so I stayed with her and and did a full assessment and cleaned her and talked to her for an hour and, um, it's like you know, I love that. I love that about myself, that I am that person that is willing to, to help, and that those opportunities, like I felt like it was, I feel like those encounters are opportunities that I've been given, like I, I like maybe I I don't know if I did something bad to like need something to counter it. You know, like what did I do yesterday? That was wrong, that I need to make up for that. I'm getting this experience, this opportunity to help.
Speaker 2:Does that make sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Or maybe I did something good and I got the opportunity to do something even better to help someone in need. So I enjoy that. But I like to use my mind for something else, just don't know what yet well, and it is so great that we have a choice.
Speaker 1:We always have a choice about everything. You know no one's stuck. You feel stuck, but you're, but you're not.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean I do, I, I feel, I feel like my, our knowledge is so specific and, like you know, we're crisis managers yeah, but you can narrow that down to help you and benefit you in whatever you choose to do yeah, no, that's. I know that that's true and I think a lot of I mean a lot of.
Speaker 2:We're putting a lot of that into this podcast yeah, absolutely, absolutely we are, it would be awesome if this would take off and we were able to like just do this. That would be just do this, that would be awesome yeah.
Speaker 1:So we'll just again ask for what we want, which is this podcast blow up and like, share and follow like, share, follow, write in.
Speaker 1:Go to our website. That has all the all the information on it. You can put your email in. Send us a message. That would be great topics you want to know about, talk about if you want to be on the podcast to tell your story. There's a lot of people in the waiting, but I think that's what this is all about, really. Yeah, it's so neat how the light's coming in on your woodwork there. Oh, thank you. Can you see it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I see it. It's so neat. Yeah, I noticed that earlier. I was thinking maybe something I could do is maybe gold leaf on little sections of it. That could be really cool yeah.
Speaker 1:Shiny yeah, shiny yeah, all right, well, everyone, have a great week and we will see you next week.
Speaker 2:Bye, bye. We hope you've enjoyed this week's episode.
Speaker 1:Remember, the conversation doesn't end here.
Speaker 2:Keep the dialogue going by connecting with us on social media posted in the links below or by visiting our website.
Speaker 1:Together, let's continue to redefine nursing and shape a brighter future for those we care for. Until next time, take care, stay curious and keep nurturing those connections.
Speaker 2:Don't forget to be kind to yourself.