Nursing U's Podcast
Nursing U is a podcast co-hosted by Julie and Caleb. We embark on an educational journey to redefine nursing within the modern healthcare landscape.
Our mission is to foster an open and collaborative environment where learning knows no bounds, and every topic—no matter how taboo—is explored with depth and sincerity. We delve into the essence of nursing, examining the intimate and often complex relationships between nurses and their patients amidst suffering and death.
Through our discussions, we aim to highlight the psychological impacts of nursing and caregiving, not only on the caregivers themselves but also on the healthcare system at large.
Our goal is to spark conversations that pave the way for healing and innovation in healthcare, ensuring the well-being of future generations.
'Nursing U' serves as a platform for examining the state of modern civilization through the lens of nursing, tackling issues that range from violence, drugs, and sex to family, compassion and love. We will utilize philosophy, religion and science to provide context and deeper understanding to the topics we tackle.
By seamlessly weaving humor with seriousness, we create a unique tapestry of learning, drawing wisdom from the experiences of elders and the unique challenges faced in nursing today.
Join us at 'Nursing U,' where we cultivate a community eager to explore the transformative power of nursing, education, and conversation in shaping a more whole and healthier world."
Disclaimer:
The hosts of 'Nursing U', Julie Reif and Caleb Schraeder are registered nurses; however, the content provided in this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only. Nothing shared on this podcast should be considered medical advice nor should it be used to diagnose or treat any medical condition. Always seek the guidance of your doctor or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition or health concerns. The views expressed on this podcast are personal opinions and do not represent the views of our employers or our professional licensing bodies.
Nursing U's Podcast
Ep #020 PT 2 - From Adversity to Empowerment: Courage, Growth, and Innovation in Nursing
Rene, a resilient nurse with a compelling personal story, joins us to share her journey from adversity to empowerment in the world of nursing. Discover how her challenging upbringing equipped her with the courage to face fears head-on, a vital skill in her professional life. We explore the emotional complexities nurses encounter daily, emphasizing the power of empathy and the unique privilege of being present during patients' most critical moments.
Our conversation also serves as a healing space for nurses, especially in the face of the emotional toll the COVID pandemic has exacted on healthcare workers. We highlight the importance of supportive environments that not only prevent burnout but sustain the passion that draws individuals to this noble profession. This episode underscores the transformative power of storytelling and sharing experiences as a form of debriefing and emotional processing.
We also traverse the paths of personal growth and career evolution within nursing. Julie's transition from traditional nursing roles to a fulfilling career in wilderness medicine exemplifies the potential for reinvention when following one's passion. We discuss the importance of systemic change and continuous learning in revolutionizing nursing care, while also questioning traditional educational pathways. This episode invites listeners to rethink what nursing can be and how it can evolve to meet future challenges head-on.
Hi, I'm Julie.
Speaker 2:And I'm Caleb. Welcome to Nursing U, the podcast where we redefine nursing in today's healthcare landscape. Join Julie and I as we step outside the box on an unconventional healing journey.
Speaker 1:Together, we're diving deep into the heart of nursing, exploring the intricate relationships between caregivers and patients with sincerity and depth.
Speaker 2:Our mission is to create an open and collaborative experience where learning is expansive and fun.
Speaker 1:From the psychological impacts of nursing to the larger implications on the healthcare system. We're sparking conversations that lead to healing and innovation.
Speaker 2:We have serious experience and we won't pull our punches. But we'll also weave in some humor along the way, because we all know laughter is often the best medicine.
Speaker 1:It is, and we won't shy away from any topic, taboo or not, from violence and drugs to family and love, we're tackling it all.
Speaker 2:Our nursing knowledge is our base, but we will be bringing insights from philosophy, religion, science and art to deepen our understanding of the human experience.
Speaker 1:So, whether you're a nurse, a healthcare professional or just someone curious about the world of caregiving, this podcast is for you.
Speaker 2:One last thing, a quick disclaimer before we dive in. While we're both registered nurses, nothing we discuss here should be taken as medical advice. Always consult with your doctor or a qualified healthcare provider for any medical concerns you may have. The views expressed here are our own and don't necessarily reflect those of our employers or licensing bodies.
Speaker 1:So let's get started on this journey together. Welcome to Nursing U, where every conversation leads to a healthier world. But you're enjoying it.
Speaker 3:I'm going to go out in a flame of glory, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So do you think that? So where exactly? I would like to know where you think that this ability comes from, because one of the things and there's a fluid nature to that experience that you're moving in and there's the element of control that you have all this knowledge and ability and skill mixed with an absolutely uncertain situation, and do you feel like so I'm getting? I'm going a long way around to get to the question of how has being a nurse, the experience and the skill sets that are unique to being a nurse, and the exposure to extreme suffering and death, how has that all played into the amalgamation of you and how you became this incredibly courageous person?
Speaker 3:Um, I think I think for me personally it doesn't. It comes from a little bit darker situation from childhood. Actually, there's a part there was, um. I grew up in a an alcoholic home and my stepdad was incredibly physically abusive to my mother and I watched my mother survive that and I watched my mother get up and go to work the next day anyway. Um, I watched her go through life, um, being an abused woman and still functioning Now.
Speaker 3:I took a couple of things from that One. I knew you would never do that to me. I knew I would never tolerate it. I get now, as I've gone through several things in life, why she made the choices that she did and stayed within that. But I knew that I wouldn't and I also knew because that and as sad as it sounds, I've actually been able to use that what that installed within me.
Speaker 3:You can survive fear and you can push through fear. Because whenever we were young kids and we knew we could hear that happening, you know it was so unbelievably scary and wrong and I don't wish that on any child and I never let any of my kids experience it. You know we definitely that cycle has been broke within our family but that fear, living within that and learning to survive. That served me through the years and within nursing, and in two ways. And then as I went into nursing and I saw how horrifying life really can be and and and breaking and devastating and dark, and I can, I know, I've seen that, I've seen it at bedside, I've seen it in personal life. So this other stuff out here that I'm fearful of I can get through that. I can survive that.
Speaker 3:I've seen what a human can survive yeah I've seen how incredibly, incredibly strong humans really are, and I also was like I've had people ask me how do you do that? How does a nurse do that at bedside? How do you experience that? How does a nurse do that at bedside, how do you experience that? And I was like, well, somebody has to, yeah, and so, honestly, there's been times I felt like it was actually an honor for me to be in that threshold with them. Yeah, so many times nurses have been. We all want to know what happens after death, right, and we all have our own beliefs of what is happening.
Speaker 3:Who else has besides? The person that's actually dying is actually right there at that threshold. Make that transition for that human being a little less.
Speaker 1:You know, a wash rag a song um a comfort to a family. A kleenex? You know what a massage? Massage?
Speaker 3:yeah, what an honor. An explanation, what's happening, giving understanding, I don't know it gives to me in those moments. I guess it refuels to do it again.
Speaker 2:It can.
Speaker 3:It can If you process it the right way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:The first time I had a death. I went to a friend of mine's house and we sat on his driveway and drank an entire pitcher of margarita, because I was not. That was you know you, you don't, and and hopefully you don't get insensitive to what's happening.
Speaker 1:You know, and what don't you think that's a choice? I think that's a choice because I think the natural pathway for that is to become insensitive, but the choice would be to not and to feel through that pain.
Speaker 3:And you know nurses are terrible at debriefing and working and thinking through that pain. I think you are so right that you have to, consciously, I'm going to have to feel this, I'm going to have to and I, but I am, I am very fortunate. Sometimes my kids don't like it because they're like mom, do you have to talk about everything? And they, as they they matured and they grew up, I understood them and they understood me and you know we figured out how to be adults together. You know some of my kids can't handle some of the debriefing and so we just don't. You know I don't go to them and lean on them for any of that and again, very thankful for the nursing friends that I have.
Speaker 3:And we do talk about it, we do debrief it, we do. It's like you know this one, it's like literally the analogy of birth is happening in this room and this one is dying in this room, and that's exactly the you know. And you meet in the hallway with your own emotions and you've got to figure out which ones to have to go to which, which room you know. And so I I do think you have to consciously be aware and willing to emotionally offload it and you just have to find the right places to do that, because not very many people can handle the debriefing and the offloading of that information. They don't know what to do with it so well, we're not I I go ahead, I'm just going to say we're not taught information.
Speaker 2:They don't know what to do with it. So well, we're not I.
Speaker 1:I go ahead oh, I'm just gonna say we're not taught that. They don't teach that part in nursing.
Speaker 3:No, they and they don't facilitate that at all, which I think is a huge one of, as you I'm sure you suspect, many things I feel like are done wrong in the professional world of nursing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, that's. I texted Julie Friday and I said what if? What we're at? Cause we we really don't know exactly what it is that we're doing with this podcast. We know that we like interviewing people and we know that we like having our expansive, explorative conversations. But I texted her and I said what if we're doing is actually providing a space to debrief? Yeah, we're giving you like we're giving people the opportunity to come on and share their stories and we're what if? What if we're actually we're actually just debriefing and not just like it's not, it doesn't exist.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But that's that kind of feels to me yeah, and it feels like him and I that's what we're doing. Yeah, we're debriefing all the years, kind of like probably very similar to what you do with your friends on the phone. You know, that's like a, that's a processing, that is a, that is a process to process that and it's doing that information.
Speaker 3:Well, you know, you probably remember this or maybe not. You know, I dabbled in doing kind of what you guys are doing, exactly in that, and the whole purpose of it was to let people tell their story, because to other nurses, because, um, I mean, I feel like I have, I've, I'm definitely on the right trajectory and path as far as my healing journey, but, um, even more so over the last two months, but, um, and I get into that a little bit in just a minute, but I felt for a long time it's a huge necessity to create a platform, and I am aware that people that aren't nurses will perhaps come across and see it and some won't understand.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:And that's okay because many, many, many many will, and so I mean I think that if that's how your podcast evolves into is a healing space for other nurses. I think that's a fantastic thing because, let me tell you, if, bless her heart, my poor little cousin was in nursing school during COVID and I was at my worst place emotionally as far as my opinion of nursing. And and if nurses I feel like nurses that are in it right now can't find a place of healing, we're leaving a very sad profession that's so incredibly I can't think of another profession that's any more necessary. We're not leaving a very good environment and a very good soil for them to grow in. So, you know, I feel like we almost have a responsibility and because I can remember I was so adamant about being a nurse and so much empathy and compassion and dedication and I mean I it was so important to me and at that time I was dating a respiratory therapist.
Speaker 3:He'd been a respiratory therapist for a really long time. He's like you'll get there, you'll get to where you're, just like everybody else, and it's like this job sucks and it would anger me, I'd be like how I would never be that person, I would never not be honored and obligated, and this will always, forever, be me. And I remember one day waking up and realizing I had yes, I definitely indeed became the person that was like this job is horrible, do not become a nurse.
Speaker 3:You want to do what Absolutely do not do that. Do not become a nurse. It to do what absolutely do not do that, do not become a nurse. It's a horrible career.
Speaker 3:And that's kind of where I was at mentally when my cousin who was and she's like can you help me study? I'm like sure I don't know why you want to do this, but whatever you know. But, um, and then actually, even when I was an, there was a piece of me that almost felt like I was lying to them, you know, and also I could do. The way I approached that was make sure I teach them to advocate for the patient, make sure I teach them to know the science, make sure I teach them to have a heart for that. You know, not to be responsible for the outcome, but have a heart for helping them get the outcome that they want. If they want to go on hospice, help them. If they want to keep fighting, even if you know they're not going to survive it, help them, you know. So what and that kind of helped me find my way back.
Speaker 3:You know they're not going to survive. It help them, you know. So what and that kind of helped me find my way back, you know, and of course, like I said, nature for me. Specifically, I was like um, finding my way back to loving humans and finding my way back to, you know, seeing what is still good and positive in society.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, there's. There's an idea that, uh, I can't remember what the source is, but the idea that, um, you can't actually be a good person until you have the option and we're put, we're put in, we're put in the position where, like you, just like you just touched on that when, when you said, you got back to the place where you loved humanity again and so that, which means that you, you went, you start with love for your fellow man, you interact in such a coarse nature with, uh, the worst parts of the human experience, and you get to the point where you, uh, you don't love or care for your, your human, you, you, where that, where that love is, is severely questioned, and somewhere at the bottom, you're presented with the option of continuing down the path of hate, or continuing, or or climbing back up the ladder of love and getting back to the place where you have chosen to do good, and then you actually are doing good.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I agree, yeah, and I mean I think we probably all at least have moments in our life where we anger and we or we have anger and we feel anger and we hate and and we feel sorry for ourselves and why me's, and all of those things. But I don't know somewhere. I guess I should probably put some thought into that If somebody really wanted to utilize that information. I'm not sure how I really got to a place where I understood you have to feel that and go through that emotion, but at some point and this is my favorite person to coach, specifically women, because I am a woman and I've gone through a lot of the things that women have gone through but you have to make a choice.
Speaker 3:Where do you want to stay? Do you want to stay in that that that's successful, of pity and anger and because it serves its purpose, but not for very long, and it's. If you stay there very long, then it just keeps you circling the drain of despair and and and it's not a pretty place, it's a, it's a gross place to stay, and so being able to help somebody see, okay, I mean there's all kinds of concepts there. You know, forgiveness is for you, not for them. I mean, there's all kinds of you know little analogies and things like that. But the point is, you want to move past it and on and forward to what is next and what good can come down the road, or do you want to stay in this pity party?
Speaker 3:right and so to me it was I don't it's, it's a yuck place to be when you're so angry and you're so pitiful, and so woes me and and, and I've been there and I've felt it and I'm, unfortunately, maybe we'll feel again. I don't know at this point in life, but, um, and and when you can understand too that you're not the only one, you're not, you're not the, um, the, probably the first person to experience it, or anything like that. So, um, just knowing and having an understanding that staying in that will not serve me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, understanding that staying in that will not serve me. Yeah, I feel like we're kind of talking to the audience now like like the way you're speaking and like uh, I've said it before, I'll say it again the my biggest mistake was that I stopped talking, I stopped sharing with friends, I disconnected. I went into my, my little bubble and I made furniture. I made beautiful things and.
Speaker 2:I was suffering in a cesspool and all alone, and it was so unnecessary but I didn't know how to get out of it. And you know, if we're talking to the audience right now, if there's somebody out there that that is in that space, or you recognize that a coworker is in that space, somebody just disappears. I uh ran into an old coworker of ours that she said you know, I didn't know what happened to you, you just disappeared. And so like if, if, uh, if somebody is in your life that is has just disappeared and they've been through all the suffering and all the death and they're carrying it and they're hiding and they're going inside. And if you're doing that unguided, it can be very dangerous. I was very lucky to survive.
Speaker 3:And I think too, to tag onto that, and I kind of touched on it a little bit too you may have to reach out to somebody different than you normally, would you know? Hey, I can't pay my rent. Can I borrow $200? That person that you lean on may not be the same person that can handle what you need to debrief and what you need to talk about.
Speaker 3:And I again I touched on that, you know, with my own, some of my kids, you know, is you know, and my sisters even, you know it's just like it wasn't that they wouldn't want to help and it did that I didn't matter to them and that they didn't love me. It's that they had no skillset or even comprehension of anything that I was going through, so they just didn't have it to give. And so if you're reaching out to people that don't have any healing to help, you find they may hurt you more and they don't mean to.
Speaker 3:So if you've reached out to your, your support system, and that support system doesn't have what it takes. Find it, find your support system?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, I've experienced some of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, same, yeah, cause you think you, you automatically think it's your family and that you're gonna, um, you know, if you have a spouse, you know, or or adult children, or even your parents, you know that that's typically who you would maybe think to go to when you're, when you're really struggling, because you know, when I was really struggling, you don't know exactly what it's coming from, like you can kind of guess that, like that that was a lot at work, but you don't ever really tell yourself this is so much because you are doing it and and if you so you can't really think that it's too much or you physically won't be able to do it. So you know, and you people might experience this, like, like, or you too, as you get to the end of, you know, your two week notice and you get kind of towards the end or your end of that contract you kind of?
Speaker 1:start letting some of the concepts start to, you know, boil in your mind and you're like God, this is bullshit, you know, whereas, like a month earlier, you didn't think that way, because you just didn't, you didn't allow yourself to to make it true or to to tell yourself that that is how it is. This is bad Because it's like self-preservation, almost Like you can't just leave, you have to stick it out. And so you're telling yourself, your self is telling yourself it's okay, you're going to be fine.
Speaker 3:But, really.
Speaker 1:It's really internally doing damage and you don't know that you're doing that, and so you think like it must be internally doing damage and you don't know that you're doing that, and so you think like it must be me, or my marriage is horrible, or you know, I'm just, I'm the worst mom.
Speaker 1:They don't care Nobody cares about me, right, and the victim, oh the victim, oh the victim, feeling like this is being done to you. That's a starting point, because it isn't. I mean, I honestly feel and even after this conversation even more, that I think we were all chosen to go into nursing. To go into nursing where it's part of our path, it's part of our spiritual walk, um, to get us to where we are going to be our best into like an enlightened kind of space, and you know when you're chosen.
Speaker 1:trials and tribulations are also part of that journey and understanding that it's a choice it's a choice to stay in your victimhood.
Speaker 1:It's a choice to stay in the negativity of the profession. It's a choice to decide I'm, I need to be different, whether or not you get out of the career or not. But it, you know, a lot of nurses will leave, like we've all kind of had our story of like I need a break, you know, and you take the break, but then you either go in to do something different around, but you, you're never not a nurse, and we've talked about that.
Speaker 1:You know, it just is part of that journey. But I think, just knowing that you have a choice, because it, like you said, it's within you, you choose how things are going to go for you said it's within you, you choose how things are going to go for you and you also choose if you decide that you're going to let things happen to you.
Speaker 3:Well, I do think that you know there are a lot of things that are out of our control. We had no control over the pandemic coming. We don't have any control over how our colleague responds to what's happening. Right, choices that become self-inflictions, right. But also there are inflictions that we all go through that are of our, are not of our doing at all, but getting how you get through it and how you choose to get through it make, can you know, make a huge difference in in an outcome and your own personal experience. So, yeah, I think to me, and I mean I, a lot of things have come full circle for me over the last several months too. I can't, where I'm at now is just still surreal and mind-blowing for me.
Speaker 3:And, let's see, I don't even remember where I left off as far as where I was at, but I mean, I've had, I've done lots of things, okay, the instructor, and then, um, I settled back in because the school wanted me to come back to full time and I that that's not someplace I wanted to live.
Speaker 3:So I was like, no, I'm not coming back to campus full time, and and so I got to regroup and then so situations lent itself to, I moved back into what you know nomadic type people call sticks and bricks and into Phoenix and dabble around in a few different areas our PACU endo area and they were still trying to find their way back to a professional environment and out of COVID. You know, I mean there's several things that came out of COVID that set I feel like set nursing back, a lot like staffing, things like that but they weren't. They just weren't there and it was. It was real, and I was like no, I, this isn't, I can't go here, I can't stay here. So managers and stuff that have ever tried to push me too far into management know this well about me I'm not a fan of salary and that position. I was like I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do a salary position, because the expectation was you work all the time and you indeed end up making less and working way more.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 3:I was like that doesn't work for me. I have a skill set that I worked hard for, I paid for my education and all that and I just have a mindset and a protection over that skill set that my expectation is that if I'm giving it, I'm going to get paid for it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:To some extent. Now, if the neighbor has a problem, of course I'm going to have Walmart. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:But I mean, if my employer is expecting me to show up and give my expertise and my knowledge and my my time and energy, I expect to get paid for it. And salary I'm just and that's my own personal I know a lot of people work for salary, I understand, but I won't so when I was like, whoa, that is not it. So then what I ended up doing which was good for me because it kept my foot in the door with nursing, but it wasn't bedside nursing and I just needed that break. And so I was working.
Speaker 3:I was occupational out on a job site and I really liked working with the common everyday guys and gals just showing up, doing their labor job, doing the best they can, trying to meet all the regulations, trying to stay within all the rules and trying not, to, you know, have a campus chemistry explosion. Try not to, you know, cut their leg off, try not to, you know, have a campus chemistry explosion. Try not to, you know, cut their leg off. Try not, to, you know, blind them. So I mean there was all kinds of things you know that would happen on a job site and that I participate in treatment of that and that went on for about a year, but the good and bad they were. The job site I was on was fantastic with their safety. The job site I was on was fantastic with their safety and there was basically almost never an injury.
Speaker 3:I was bored out of my mind, literally bored out of my mind. So one of the things I did was you know what I love? Wilderness medicine. Let me sign up for a wilderness medicine course. I'd taken it in 2016. I had since let my certification lapse. Let me go do it again, just simply because I love the content. I didn't know what I was going to do with it, didn't know if I would ever do anything with it other than feel a little safer when I'm hiking. I don't know. So, um, I did take that. It was a seven day or seven day, a five day intense course.
Speaker 3:Loved every single second of it, but, um, it was all wilderness medicine and I want to do it huh I want to do it oh, it's amazing, I can I'll, definitely can point you in that direction if you decide to. Um, they, um, one of the speakers was um somebody that has worked in the clinic that I'm in for over 30 years and he was a physician and lectured on the difference in which is a huge topic within wilderness medicine the difference between hyponatremia versus dehydration. So hyponatremia, of course, is going to come from probably too much water and dehydration, but they present really similar. So he taught this lecture and it was brilliant. I was like, oh, ok, of course you know the definitely little tidbits and how to you know, look, what to look at to try to make a decision.
Speaker 3:Diagnose, you know, not diagnostically, but you know. Diagnose which way? Yeah, clinical, which, which pathway do I? What do I think I need to do to help this person? So, um and I. So I went up and asked him. I said how do I work, where you work? And he said, well, here's the company. I was like, okay, well, let me just look into that. And literally from that very second and the whole time, even taking the course of like I'd taken it before, wasn't exactly sure why, I even felt like I needed to take it again, but I'm gonna take it again. And now I know it was all kind of just by design to end up where I'm at now and, um, I applied for the company and literally every single step of the way has been fantastic and and perfect, and so now I work in it.
Speaker 3:I do indeed, I work in a national park. I live in a forest and it is this last week I've been. I've had a pretty severe, I think, case of COVID and honestly, probably by my own mistake, I didn't even think I no-transcript, yeah, and the whole time that's circulating in front of my simple mask and then I go out and I run the test, I'm like, oh shit yeah, he's positive, let me go get my n95, my.
Speaker 3:So really I feel like it was my own error. So kind of self-inflicted covid, but oh my god, it was pretty bad there for a couple of days I was like, okay, my thoughts would only stay in 85 and my temperature is 103 and I'm like, oh, okay, we're getting real close to needing to go ahead and go to the hospital. And, um, I wrote it out.
Speaker 3:But, the most amazing thing, I still swear by forest bathing and the healing nature because I open up I know you can probably see and see my pictures and stuff like that I can open up my whole living room and the whole thing is forest. I can go out onto my back porch, I can literally walk out my front door and I'm in the forest. I can walk the dog, I can, and I mean nature is my medicine and I feel like that, you know, definitely got me through. And and the fact that I refused to lay down for very long cause I didn't want to get pneumonia, and making sure I was percussions, I mean all the things nurses know how to do. How are my stats? Okay, we're, we're, we're, we're okay, you know, um, so I mean I, I feel and I absolutely love nursing.
Speaker 3:Again, I work with a clinic that every person in that works in that clinic and it's I haven't seen it in years they honestly care, no matter what walks through the door, from what country, from what denomination, what faith, what sexual orientation, it just doesn't matter. What's the science here? How can I help you feel, feel better, and they go the extra mile, you know. And so half my clinic is primary care and half of my clinic is urgent care, and so, and it's just simply and we just I see patient after patient after patient that I truly they matter to me and to feel that as a nurse again is amazing and I think, think a lot of it. It's twofold. It's because my environment, you know, I found my environment, I found where I belong and I haven't had that in my career in years and years and years. So in my own personal life I'm so content and so at peace and I'm not able because I will never forget, none of us will ever forget but I'm able to just kind of set it down.
Speaker 1:It's just.
Speaker 3:I can't. I can't carry the burden of what happened anymore, you know so.
Speaker 2:It's amazing.
Speaker 3:It is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think just, I mean that's what happens when we really let go and just move with our own intuition, because we internally know. And so you were like I don't know, I don't know why I had to take that course I already took it, but I want, I love it.
Speaker 1:I love it, it gives me joy, it makes me happy. So I'm just going to do it, cause I just, I don't know, I thought of something, but you know, and then there you go. I mean that is how things are manifested, and you know, it's it. It it does require work, but it doesn't have to be excruciating and hard, it can just be inspired and it is. I mean, you can say hero, you can say courageous, you can say brave, but it's, it's just to me inspirational.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it is, I mean your life and the, the picture, you know, that I see is just one of inspiration. You listening to your own inspiration and it gives encouragement that you know things can work out.
Speaker 3:They really can, they really can.
Speaker 1:And you know just.
Speaker 3:And I think, if you also have your goals, have your dreams, but don't hold so tight that you stand in the way of life evolving the way it's meant to.
Speaker 3:You know, or or you shut out any other possibility or blessing and you also don't get the goal. You know, because all my dreams haven't worked out, all my goals haven't happened, all my endeavors haven't turned out to be successful. Happen, all my endeavors haven't turned out to be successful. You know so, um, you know my mama. She was a, you know, a pretty simple, simple lady, but she threw definitely threw some little nuggets out through the years and, um, one of them was I've literally never regretted trying anything. You know, there's things I wish I had tried and those are my regrets, the things I wish I had tried and I never did. But trying, even if you're not successful and I kind of feel the same way I mean, um, I have a couple of things I might be able to throw in the regret category, but I'm all of it makes me who I am right now. So not trying to me is the biggest regrets.
Speaker 1:You, know, wishing you had done something, or at least tried you know, yeah, cause you never know, you never, you never know. I mean trying, and then you can call it not succeeding, but it's really just deciding like, eh, this isn't really for me that's a gift too, because now you know, you don't know unless you die.
Speaker 3:And understanding you can actually change directions. Then, until you're dead, it's not over. It's really not over. It's not over until it's over.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely so good, this has been awesome.
Speaker 1:Thank you, I looked forward to it.
Speaker 3:I know Well, thank you, it's I'm really, I looked forward to it. I knew it would be a great conversation, you know, and and I love being a part of it, because I mean I'm, I'm so in love with nursing again and I mean I, although you know I, I really, until my mind won't function, I don't not that I, you know, plan to take direct care of patients for the rest of my life. I, I hopefully will, you know, be in some capacity involved in nursing for for many, many years, even after I retire from direct patient care. But, and you know, stuff like this is, um, I think, integral parts of nursing at this point.
Speaker 1:So yeah, well, that's kind of why we named it what we did. You know, as nurses we're we're always nursing, so we're nursing ourselves and really we're nursing humanity right now, and I think that's kind of the level at which and you too, you know it's like, yeah, you might not be a bedside nurse, you might not be actually taking care of an actual patient, but everyone really is a patient, you know, and and what wisdom and the knowledge and the compassion that we have for humanity and you know, the collective, the more people you can get into this kind of space and type of thinking, it's just going to elevate the whole race, the whole humanity all of it all of humanity, yeah, and so you know, I will always, always be nurses.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, no matter what you do, you write a book that's taking care of humanity.
Speaker 3:You know photographs out, that's taking care of humanity.
Speaker 1:You know photographs out that's taking care of humanity. You provide, like what we're doing, a platform for whatever happens is just providing and putting out their kindness and compassion and you know a level of like. Just be that we're all human you know yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, I don't know if you guys have thought about this either, but I also look at nursing you. As you know, the you could almost stand in some way as university nursing you and that we're learning, you know, because that's a wonderfulves at nursing. I don't like it. I didn't like it when I was a young nurse and I still don't like it as an older nurse. Don't say to me, but this is how we've always done it. Are we not smart? Are we not scientific? Are we not capable of learning and changing and evolving and doing better and better, you know. So that's kind of how I look at nursing you too, in a way is you know, it's nurses continuing to learn from each other and grow, and so yeah, that's why we didn't spell out the Y O U.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's precisely we kept it to you.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Cause we, it is, it's learning, and we're and I think, as nurses, we're always teachers and you know it.
Speaker 1:I, in everything I do, I always find myself either wanting to teach or teaching, and my kids don't appreciate it sometimes, but I'm teaching, I'm, I'm just teaching you the way that it kind of really is you know it's a no bullshit way and yeah, you know so, so we are. So we, we had that also. You know, even in our, even our logos and stuff. We had the old time kind of vintage university logo, one point we were kicking around. Yeah, that is very true of what it's of what it's like yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, I think you guys are doing great things and I appreciate you thinking of me to be a part of it.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I'm more than happy to do so we may have you back on. Our guests have just been so amazing. Like I said in the beginning, because we pick them intuitively, just you know, and that's what, that is what makes this so good, yeah and yeah I mean we could all come together and do something. I just it, just it's.
Speaker 3:The possibilities are endless yeah, yeah, true, you may end up having a a yearly conference of yeah panel.
Speaker 2:I know I've said, yeah, we've talked about it. One of the things that I have wanted for a long time is to do a think tank, to think through, do a true nursing think tank. I don't think it exists currently. There are administrator think tanks, there are hospital system think tanks, but none of them really involve nurses.
Speaker 1:Yeah, outside of a hospital system. So yeah it would have to be done outside, and that that's kind of similar, like with this podcast too. We didn't want to be associated with any kind of system. We don't. We're not in the system. We don't want to be in the system.
Speaker 3:I mean I will probably throw this out here and then then just let it all go, and because it would turn into another several hour worth of podcast and part of warriors that want to move us to a preventative care system yes but that also puts us up against big farm and and traditional and, yeah, a whole set of uh things but but it does and that and that always.
Speaker 1:You know, we talk about things like that and we think it seems scary and it's very daunting. But I think how change happens, it systemically and it doesn't just happen. You know, it's like the small, like grassroots kind of.
Speaker 3:It's small, it's gathering community, it's creating lots of little communities and really almost you know so it just like goes out over the you know, like a fog kind of rolling in, and you know it it's just little by little I do think, like I said, this could like turn into such a long conversation, but um one of the when my journey on um this concept, I I have two very pivotal points, and one of them I was working in the ER. A nurse was in there who was pregnant, having a kidney stone. When I came in for that shift and took report, they had already gave this young lady something ridiculous like I don't know 16 milligrams of morphine. And I was like what are't know 16 milligrams of morphine. And um, and I was like what, what are we doing? What is it helping? Why do you keep giving it to her? And they're like well, she keeps saying it's like so what you're telling me is it's not working, so why do we keep doing it and inflicting that on the baby If it's not even helping? Because she wanted it, okay, but who's the provider and who's got the training and who I know? But right now she's a patient. But that concept is like because they want it. To me is is a that's not giving good care. Yeah, that's not giving good care. That's not giving science-based care, that's not giving evidence-based care, that's not.
Speaker 3:So then, and I mean, I took over, went in and saw the young lady. She, I mean, I knew her, she knew me. And I went back to the provider and I said you've got an order of four and four ordered. I'm not going to give that. And he's like what do you mean? You're not going to give it? And I said I'm not going to. If you want her to have more morphine and more Zofran, you go give it to her. We got. How about we do something else? How about we try fentanyl? And all right, if you want to try it, go ask her if that's okay with her. Okay, so are you you want to try that? And the patient was like, yeah, let's try that.
Speaker 3:Within 30 minutes, the patient had their clothes on, was walking out the door now, was it because they knew they'd come up against the nurse that I will absolutely give you what you need, and including narcotics and pain medicine, but if it's not working, I'm not just going to keep doling it out, and so I'm going to honestly put thought and effort into giving what is going to help and is needed versus that situation. And then I actually three in that one place, the main guy in the OR. We were talking about the ER, we were talking about the distribution of narcotics, and this was right in the heat of the narcotic addiction, the opioid addiction, and and I was like this is this is crazy. Why are we we're handing this out like candy? I don't understand. He's I said this is not the right care, we're not doing the right thing by the patients.
Speaker 3:We all said that we would do the right thing. He said you're right, we F up their lives, we ruin their lives, but you're not going to see any of this change in our time in medicine. And I was like I'm not going to, I can't accept that, I cannot accept that. And so that started to be kind of on a journey of hey, what are we doing in medicine? You know what are we doing.
Speaker 3:And then during COVID, when I took that class, that coaching certification, it was for a transformative nurse coach, and they're nurses that have decided they don't want to participate in this push of keeping people sick and making them sicker. And here's more medicine, more medicine. They see what's happening to our society and they're trying to learn and learn and learn. And how to? How do we move away from this? How do we help people be healthy, not prevent or treat their sicknesses? And so that's where it kind of all started for me, and I feel like who better to help us change and do better than the persons that are actually at the bedside watching the outcomes of how we are going about medicine in our country anyway?
Speaker 3:Yeah, and so I just think nurses could do amazing, amazing, amazing things to move us out of this huge big pharmacology and obesity and mental and physical unhealthiness and help move the needle back towards actually helping people be healthy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's exactly where I want to do the. Uh, the think tank. Who better who? Better we get there yeah who better we're?
Speaker 3:we're right there we see it, we know it, we know the truth. Yeah, so yeah yeah, we know, that is we know we are carriers of knowledge yeah, we definitely are yeah how many, I don't, how many, I don't know if you've ever, how many physicians you've ever asked when you're going through medical school. I I remember. I remember specifically asking physicians when you're going through medical school. How many classes of nutrition have you ever taken? Zero.
Speaker 2:Zero yeah.
Speaker 3:Zero.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:And there are we?
Speaker 1:we mentioned it on that other podcast we talked about. We were talking about microbiome, oh okay, and there was the book that we mentioned. I can't think of it off the top of my head, but there are physicians that are waking up to that and being like they are, oh my god, like what you know, but when you're so wrapped up in the system you cannot see. I mean, I have you have.
Speaker 3:and caleb, I'm sensing that you also, I mean, if you have the personality that can stand kind of firm against pushback and confident enough and not, you know, don't take it. I mean, I'm not ironclad. I can get my feelings hurt and stuff like that. And you know, when you're coming up against somebody that you're pretty sure thinks completely different than you, they're not going to want to hear what you have to say. I mean it's a little unnerving, it's not the easiest thing in the world to do, but as enough of us get to a place where we're like, okay, enough is enough, yeah, let's, let's start. And I do. I mean I've I follow a youtube channel that, um, he was a neurosurgeon and he finally was like, what are we doing?
Speaker 3:We're not fixing anybody, we're not preventing any of the strokes, any of that. You know, when somebody says, well, you can't prevent a stroke, you actually you can in a lot of ways you can prevent a lot of strokes. I mean people don't want to hear that one because they don't want to do what it takes to prevent it. And then big farm and a huge community, medical community, doesn't want it's lucrative.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right.
Speaker 3:And so then I mean there's another that's been through the political world. You know, if you follow stuff like you know RF or you know Bobby Kennedy and things like that, you know there's lots of things starting to come out. Not that I think everything Bobby Kennedy says is true, but there's, you know, there's just the conversations are being had now.
Speaker 1:They are, yeah, they are.
Speaker 2:The general distrust of our health healthcare system is so pervasive I don't think that there's any other choice but to change.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, I mean it's coming, people are talking about it, they are bringing it up, but it's like the Goliath David.
Speaker 3:Yeah, david, the slingshot.
Speaker 1:The small boy, yeah, In his little slingshot, you know, and but that's kind of the, the mentality that you have to use as your armor when when you know, talking about some of this, that's.
Speaker 2:That's kind of to my point that I don't think that they have a choice to but to change, because if everyone loses faith in the system and stops participating, and and, and and. The other thing is that nurses are peeling off in all directions. They're coming in and they're going straight to grad school and leaving the bedside they're. They're coming in, they're saying no, this health care thing is in. The whole thing is bullshit. And I'm out and they're leaving. Or they're like us, they're they, they, they spend their years in the trenches and they kill themselves, or we're retiring because we're getting to that age.
Speaker 3:I mean, I had to fight hard and the only reason I didn't 100% find a way 100% to just wash my hands of nursing is that peace in me. That was like but, but but. I love when I can truly help them.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, absolutely Same.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But it's that, it's that inverse relationship where nurses are are are walking away. They're leaving the bedside in whatever, whatever direction that is they're leaving. And then we have the, the baby boom generation, that is. You know, they're no longer moving forward, they're moving backwards, and so the system, the burden on the system is so huge and and the base of nursing is squeezing out, so it has no choice but to change. So I don't like. Yeah, I can see the analogy of david and goliath, but to me, intuitively, it can't exist in its current form long term yeah it just can't it.
Speaker 2:It nobody, nobody's gonna take it out. It just isn't going to be able to.
Speaker 3:It's just unsustainable so this and you may. You may want to completely edit this out, but I'll just. I'll just throw this in here and my my ride or die. She is getting her phd I she actually would probably be a fantastic subject if you wanted to interview her but, she God, I love this girl but she hates it when I present this thinking track.
Speaker 3:Do you guys remember and this just goes to, the status quo cannot exist. It all, all of it has got to be revamped and changed and we definitely got to come start coming at it from a different direction. But you guys remember a few years ago I think it was florida, and then one or two other states they got caught selling diplomas.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 3:So they were selling diplomas to people that said that they had graduated from a nursing program. Then these individuals went on to pass the NCLEX and become hired as bedside nurses. Wow, there was something like I mean it was a lot. Six 700, just in one situation. So that is a huge study group, right? If you look at it that way, that's a huge I'm trying to cohort or whatever. That's a huge amount of people. Dataset.
Speaker 3:Dataset there you go huge, I'm trying to cohort or whatever. That's a huge amount of people that bought their diploma, went on to study and teach themselves the concept pass the NCLEX, go to work, get a job. And in all of the ones that they could track, they never. They did not find one error, one negative impact on the patient that they could find. Now, how thorough that was, I'm not sure what that led me to feel and think, when I'm always at the mindset of what needs to change. Where can the change happen? Just that alone? And here's the part where my friend's like, don't say that if you don't even need to go through nursing school and the torture of that and you can simply pass the NCLEX, then if, if that was a known process, okay, you've passed your NCLEX.
Speaker 3:Because every single one of us, when we passed NCLEX, we were so baby, our knowledge base was still so limited. And then, okay. So then people will be like, okay, well, what about the whole clinical experience? Well, for one thing, how many nurses went through COVID and graduated? So their clinical was basically non-existent, their clinical experience? So, if it is, you are aware and trust me, I know how bizarre this thinking is. If you are, if the hiring person is aware. Okay, you got your NCLEX because you just taught yourself you have. You now have 20 weeks of orientation or whatever. That is because that's where the real, real learning you do have a base. Of course, by the time you get there, please, I hope they have a basic understanding. But, man, the learning starts when you land in orientation.
Speaker 2:That's true, but I think, think I, when I looked at that, uh, what happened down in florida? Most of those people um were either nurses in a former country that couldn't get, could, couldn't go back to school here, and then they were also um cnas and lpns with a lot of experience. They weren't coming in just blank slates. They had a lot of hospital experience already and they just went about getting their degree in an unethical way a little odd way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah but I mean it really. They did not have to endure, like you said, the torture of nursing school and my suggestion is not hey, we just need to do away with nursing school altogether.
Speaker 3:I know say it warrants observation and some thought, and yeah is, are we doing it? The best way we can, you know, is there, is there a way to?
Speaker 2:well, I mean get people into the profession I think it's going to radically transform I think I don't know. You know the podcast we did with Riz recently. We talked a little bit about the implications of how AI will be used in nursing. I don't know how they, I don't know how they replace us or it replaces us, us, but I I guarantee that that is absolutely in in the mix, that that ai. Ai is going to radically transform how we're educated and and what our role in the hospital is vr technology putting the headset on and then going all the way through a scenario you know.
Speaker 3:I mean there's all kinds of, but if the last 60 years of my life has taught me nothing else, it's taught me that I literally have no idea what's coming the next 60. Right no idea how things are going to go, who knows.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that and that's such a great attitude really to have is just be open to, to what's out there. You know you're not, you're not stuck in a box. I mean, you create your life. That's possible. Yeah, yeah, it's so possible and it's possible to go from a place where you don't want to be to a place that you absolutely love.
Speaker 3:Yeah, At least you have an opportunity to be an active participant in how things go in your life.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, we're two hours. Yeah, this is great.
Speaker 2:You got plenty of editing to do. Yeah, it was awesome.
Speaker 3:Awesome. Well, I enjoyed it very much, I'm glad we were able to make it happen.
Speaker 2:Truly remarkable person, thank you. Well, thank you so much. I'm glad we were able to make it happen. Truly remarkable person, thank you.
Speaker 3:Oh well, thank you so much.
Speaker 2:I really enjoyed you guys. Yeah.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, you know what we're going to. Yes, absolutely Be in touch soon, okay.
Speaker 3:All right, bye guys, bye yeah.
Speaker 2:We hope you've enjoyed this week's episode.
Speaker 1:Remember, the conversation doesn't end here.
Speaker 2:Keep the dialogue going by connecting with us on social media posted in the links below or by visiting our website together let's continue to redefine nursing and shape a brighter future for those we care for.
Speaker 1:Until next time, take care, stay curious and keep nurturing those connections.
Speaker 2:Don't forget to be kind to yourself.