Nursing U's Podcast
Nursing U is a podcast co-hosted by Julie and Caleb. We embark on an educational journey to redefine nursing within the modern healthcare landscape.
Our mission is to foster an open and collaborative environment where learning knows no bounds, and every topic—no matter how taboo—is explored with depth and sincerity. We delve into the essence of nursing, examining the intimate and often complex relationships between nurses and their patients amidst suffering and death.
Through our discussions, we aim to highlight the psychological impacts of nursing and caregiving, not only on the caregivers themselves but also on the healthcare system at large.
Our goal is to spark conversations that pave the way for healing and innovation in healthcare, ensuring the well-being of future generations.
'Nursing U' serves as a platform for examining the state of modern civilization through the lens of nursing, tackling issues that range from violence, drugs, and sex to family, compassion and love. We will utilize philosophy, religion and science to provide context and deeper understanding to the topics we tackle.
By seamlessly weaving humor with seriousness, we create a unique tapestry of learning, drawing wisdom from the experiences of elders and the unique challenges faced in nursing today.
Join us at 'Nursing U,' where we cultivate a community eager to explore the transformative power of nursing, education, and conversation in shaping a more whole and healthier world."
Disclaimer:
The hosts of 'Nursing U', Julie Reif and Caleb Schraeder are registered nurses; however, the content provided in this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only. Nothing shared on this podcast should be considered medical advice nor should it be used to diagnose or treat any medical condition. Always seek the guidance of your doctor or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition or health concerns. The views expressed on this podcast are personal opinions and do not represent the views of our employers or our professional licensing bodies.
Nursing U's Podcast
Ep #021 - Charting a New Era of Nursing with AI
What if our lives are more influenced by the unseen mechanics of time than we ever imagined? We explore this captivating idea as we kick off a new year on Nursing U, inviting you to journey with us through the intricate world of calendars and time. From the solar-based Gregorian system to lunar calendars and astrological approaches, we delve into how these constructs shape our perception of time. We challenge societal norms such as time zones and daylight savings, wondering if there is a path to living more mindfully, untethered from the arbitrary structures that often dictate our daily routines.
Our conversation then transitions into the heart of nursing, where we shine a spotlight on hospice care. By amplifying the voices of nurses on the ground, we confront common misconceptions and highlight the critical need for informed decision-making around end-of-life care. Join us as we discuss the imperative of early education in hospice and how a platform like ours can empower families and caregivers with the knowledge required to navigate challenging healthcare landscapes. We also touch upon the evolving role of technology in nursing, including the ethical and practical implications of AI advancements.
As we cast our gaze towards the future, the potential of AI to revolutionize nursing becomes a central theme. We reflect on AI's promise to streamline data management while preserving the core human connections that define nursing. Drawing parallels with past technological shifts, we engage in a thought-provoking discussion about the benefits and ethical dilemmas AI brings. By contemplating AI's role as a tool that enhances rather than replaces, we embrace the opportunities a new year holds, encouraging a sense of hope and renewal as we look forward to the possibilities ahead.
Hi, I'm Julie and I'm Caleb.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Nursing U, the podcast where we redefine nursing in today's healthcare landscape. Join Julie and I as we step outside the box on an unconventional healing journey.
Speaker 1:Together, we're diving deep into the heart of nursing, exploring the intricate relationships between caregivers and patients with sincerity and depth.
Speaker 2:Our mission is to create an open and collaborative experience where learning is expansive and fun.
Speaker 1:From the psychological impacts of nursing to the larger implications on the healthcare system. We're sparking conversations that lead to healing and innovation.
Speaker 2:We have serious experience and we won't pull our punches. But we'll also weave in some humor along the way, because we all know laughter is often the best medicine.
Speaker 1:It is, and we won't shy away from any topic, taboo or not, from violence and drugs to family and love, we're tackling it all.
Speaker 2:Our nursing knowledge is our base, but we will be bringing insights from philosophy, religion, science and art to deepen our understanding of the human experience.
Speaker 1:So, whether you're a nurse, a healthcare professional or just someone curious about the world of caregiving, this podcast is for you.
Speaker 2:One last thing, a quick disclaimer before we dive in. While we're both registered nurses, nothing we discuss here should be taken as medical advice. Always consult with your doctor or a qualified healthcare provider for any medical concerns you may have. The views expressed here are our own and don't necessarily reflect those of our employers or licensing bodies.
Speaker 1:So let's get started on this journey together. Welcome to Nursing U, where every conversation leads to a healthier world. Hello, hello, yes, here we are Back again. It's a new year. It is a new year. When you're listening to this, it is a new year.
Speaker 2:We're actually recording it on December 8th, so we're three weeks, four weeks out from when this will land in your ears.
Speaker 1:Which is a weird concept in itself, but necessary necessary.
Speaker 2:Well, when you asked me to think about what to talk about in terms of it being the first episode to come out in the new year, it just brought up just the calendar, the thought of what is the calendar? I'm fascinated by calendars and the implications of what it is Meaning. The calendar is entirely solar, so it's entirely sun-based, and it's based I mean, most calendars are based off of base 10 math, which is essentially a snazzy way of describing that we count in groups of tens and then also that numbers are represented within the confines of the digits one through nine, zero, one through nine. I think I've said this before that all structures of philosophy, all structures of philosophy, all structures of religion, are all at the foundational level, attempting to answer or attempting to address the questions of why is this bright ball flying through the sky and then disappearing every day, every day, every day, like it just keeps happening and um, you know, and there are different types of calendars. There's calendars that are entirely based off the lunar cycle, um, there are calendars that are based off of a, of a, of a, an amalgamation of the two, a solar, lunar calendar.
Speaker 2:I think that astrology is based off of an astrological calendar. I don't know that one as well, or really I don't know anything about that one, but you know it's a well. Actually, I do know that the astrological calendar and the Gregorian calendar are not aligned. I don't know why it that doesn't really make sense. But yeah, those are just some of the thoughts that I was having when you asked me to think about the transition of one year to the next.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which is is interesting, and that it was just like created by someone and they decided that you know it would be called like January and that January, like you, would just start like 12 months. But is it 12 astrological signs, Like there are certain things that kind of string together through all of them, but yet it's kind of all made up.
Speaker 1:But yet we know that, even you know, in the very, very remote history there were calendars, there were timekeeping things. And you know time is a crazy thing too, because you know it can be like one time here but in Colorado it's a different time and in California it's a different time and in California it's a different time.
Speaker 2:Oh well, we made that up. That's entirely made up, in fact. I love this saying. There's a saying it's been attributed to a Native American Indian chief. It says that only the white man believes that he can cut the end of a rug off it to the top of the rug and believe he has more rug. And that's daylight savings time.
Speaker 1:People yeah, and that's daylight savings, yeah, no, it it is, it's just it's trickery, it's all trickery, it's just, it's idiocy. Doesn't make any sense, but nonetheless you know we, you can get on amazon and you can get a new calendar and it fucking starts in january and they call January 1st the new year welcome to 2025.
Speaker 2:Here we are.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh yeah, it's hard not to you know, living and just learning to be and to not be so rushed and to not work so hard and to just be stepping back. It's very challenging to not. It's hard to get out of all of that because it's so prevalent around you and everything is scheduled and everything has a time and it feels like you could only do that really if, like, you didn't have a job and you just woke up and you did whatever you wanted that day and but we don't, like, we are tied and we do have the jobs and we do believe in and contribute to the money-making system and clocking in hourly and doing all of that, and so it's.
Speaker 1:It's like you know, before, when I didn't really understand all of that, that was my groundhog day every day doing that, doing that, and now I've kind of stepped out of that and I don't feel so much like that. But you, it's very hard to not be tied to to some of that and I guess maybe that's a journey, that that is the journey.
Speaker 2:That's, I'm going to recycle something that I said in one of the earlier episodes that bring a couple of ideas together that it was a necessary collapse of all systems.
Speaker 2:And then also the idea of the blessing of rock bottom, that the blessing of rock bottom and the collapse of all, the requisite collapse of all systems brought me to this place, where you know I'm analyzing all these things. I just took for granted my entire life, all these structures that are in place, that hold society together, that you just exist within until you take the time to look at it and start analyzing it. And what does it mean that we're doing all this? I mean, at the end of the day, the lack of meaning of that, that that is cultivated through watching people suffer and die over and over and over, demands that you ask the question of what does it mean?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then and then I mean you have to then like there's a you can get lost in. What does it mean? You can, and and you can. Then you're like there's a regulatory uh mechanism that you have to have with internally in in your cognitive functions that prevents you from projecting your imagination on to meaning yeah that you can.
Speaker 2:Then you start grasping at things. I I think this is this is kind of another angle of what I was saying when Riz was on about conspiracy theories, that that they like, for instance, dentistry. For a long time I was like, oh, the, the, um, the, what, what's the chemical? Uh, fluoride, that everybody's in an uproar, that it's blocking our, our pineal gland.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Okay, number one dentistry. If you look at the history of dentistry has saved more lives than any other form of medicine. Like, I don't think that. I don't think that the American association of dentistry, uh, sat down and was like how are we going to decrease consciousness? I don't think that was part of their conversation. I think things emerge in a much more organic way than we, and because things don't mean anything anymore, we're projecting these ideas of maleficence I'm struggling with that word. We're projecting that malefic force to these kind of faceless bodies of governance.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:When they when. Really it's just a force of our imagination that no one I mean until they can, I don't. I don't know that anybody's proven scientifically that it calcifies the pineal gland. And even even if it did and this is this is where it becomes a theological perspective that I personally hold that even if it did calcify the pineal gland, it could never calcify it enough that whatever created all of this, whatever you know, because we're, we're identifying that every, everything is in wave forms. So the idea that God spoke creation into being, if, if, if, you're going to ascribe to that that belief there is no chemical structure. There is no chemical structure, there is no mineral, there is no man-made thing. That, that voice, that creative voice, wherever it's emanating from down to us, there's nothing that could prevent that voice from breaking through and opening that pineal gland.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Right, there's nothing that can stand in the way of that. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And maybe it's just thought like people's or something to give them something to blame, or maybe it's there. This is being presented so people become more aware of their glands and and the process of of opening that and expanding their mind. You know, rather than focusing on like who did that and why did they do that and when did that start, how long has that been going on and what are. But it's just like if you think it is, then work on it, work on opening it, then work on the opposite you know, yeah, I mean there's, it's a, it's Work on opening it, then work on the opposite.
Speaker 2:You know, yeah, I mean there's it's a, it's a negative, it's a negativity bias.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's looking at everything through a negative lens, and and I think, I think that I think that I think that part of that is that we're acculturated into this capitalistic system in that we have to solve problems, so we're looking for problems, which is looking through a negative lens, like critically, and then you know, we have the objective, we're searching for objective data to validate our biases, and and so that is cultivating this kind of culture of looking at everything as a problem, and then, oh, I have the solution.
Speaker 1:Yeah, rather than just noticing yourself and, if you are not feeling as good as what you want, doing things that make you feel better, you know, rather than focusing on why it's that way. And I think this kind of is like the therapy thing we talked about a little bit, you know, like really going back and just focusing on, oh God, why and this, and she did this to me and that's why I'm this way. And oh my God, I used toothpaste and my and she did this to me and that's why I'm this way. And, oh my God, I used toothpaste and my mom gave me fluoride treatment and now I'm fucked, and now my penile gland I can't, if you have a feel about it.
Speaker 2:Pineal gland, not penile. Oh my gosh, that is so funny. That is funny.
Speaker 1:That is funny that it came out that Well you know, if you have an issue, then just work on making it better for yourself. That's it, you know, I don't know. So I think thinking about the new year has us thinking about just kind of not dredging up everything and just kind of like it's all you know. It's like a kind of a fresh start and and um, thinking about the future, where you want to be, which kind of is evaluating a little bit of where you are now but not where you've been, like why do you gotta talk about like?
Speaker 1:where have you been? What have you all been doing? You know, just moving through and noticing where you are now and really looking at where you've been. I mean, I think we can even look at our podcast, you know. I mean it's crazy that I think you and I met for coffee in February, or January, I think it was February, and so like we're literally coming up on a year of of this it is, it really is, and so that's that's why time is just a crazy thing, because you know you can do something and it feels like it's.
Speaker 1:You know it's been five minutes. Well, here's an example it's 2 30 AM in the ICU and you're like you look at the clock again and it's like two oh one and you just know it's been at least 45 minutes, but it's not. It's only been like one minute. Time is crazy, but you know. You know, we didn't really have like a a plan.
Speaker 2:We kind of knew we just wanted a podcast that we just we just knew we had stuff to say and we like I mean the premise that just having the conversation was going to help other nurses deal with what yeah just know that they're not alone in what they're experiencing.
Speaker 1:Right, that's it right and just a different're experiencing Right, that's it Right. And just a different, a different hearing a different person say it a different way. You know and and and hopefully being relatable to you know, the nurses on the floor, you know, not coming from administration, not coming from a care system, not coming from. You know. I think it's been impressive for me our ability to continue pushing forward with creating this platform despite all of the, you know, challenges that came up with everything and a lot of technology things, a lot of fiddling through and volume issues. And you know it's like when you know that something is meant to be, is supposed to be, is purposeful to you, is meaningful for you. You know it really is pushing through those barriers and just to continue going. Just continue to go and learning along the way you know yeah.
Speaker 1:Learning. There's a lot of things we've learned. A lot of things we've learned about tech. A lot of things we've learned about each other. A lot of things I've learned about myself and other nurses experiences.
Speaker 2:You know, I really, I really love the interviews.
Speaker 1:I do too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, actually I I'm going to just throw this out there we should what one of the things that I'm discovering from doing hospice is.
Speaker 2:We need to do full, in-depth conversations and interviews with hospice nurses, executives, social workers. We need to provide a comprehensive understanding of what hospice is as a community service to help educate the community so that they will opt to enter hospice earlier. This is one of the problems with hospice is that they learn about the benefit too late, so then it's a crisis to get into the hospice and then the entire process of hospice is compressed and it raises a lot of questions with the family of how this process is going and if they would enter it in. There's a six month benefit for hospice. If the patients would enter into that sooner, if people were educated and they would enter into that sooner, it would save so many inappropriate interventions on our side within the hospital system. I kind of view it as a pressure release valve for our role in critical care. Yeah, if, if people were really truly educated on what hospice benefit is, then this is this I I see hospice as a one of the solutions to the mountain of death that I've described so many times.
Speaker 1:That's so interesting yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think that's good. I think that's good. I, I know personally. We were a pro for my mother-in-law. It was too late and it wasn't. It wasn't approached. They didn't approach us very well about it with a lot of the correct language and it was a lot of services, so she declined to go into hospice.
Speaker 1:But a lot of benefits she, the general public feels that hospice is like in stage you're dying in a day and no, no, no, no, no. It's a transition from life to death and that transition can be months. Yeah, and it is very nice that Medicare actually pays for that. And, you know, I think the benefit to them is keeping patients out of the hospital and keeping those inappropriate admissions for families who, you know, get scared when their loved one changes and and they come in and then we as nurses feel like we're doing a lot of inappropriate things to these patients, who, who just are dying, they are dying they're just dying, they're just dying.
Speaker 1:They're not dying, so we can't do a code blue on them. But we're all these interventions are, are for not there and and and it's just we know. We know that the family does not and I think you're right If there was a lot more education regarding that. And, and I'm sure it's why, why isn't there Probably just resources, just resources. And you know the the case managers in in case managers in hospital are completely overworked, their caseload and and how many patients they have to deal with.
Speaker 1:I mean you might have a, say, 120 inpatients and there's like three case managers, that's it. So their list is so long. Like they have units of patients you know they might have. They might have 30 or more patients a piece to try to do discharge planning, which, once you're in the hospital and if your condition warrants an invitation to hospice, who says that? You know, I mean you can have hospice come in, but there just is not enough time because they're trying to get you discharged or trying to do that. They're trying to get it set up and sometimes families need longer to think about because it for whatever, whatever reason it's it, it's for it's such a foreign and it takes them a long time to make the decision. I don't know it's, it's a weird dynamic. I mean people that I've talked to about hospice in the hospital, they, they. It's almost like I'm talking about putting them down with with the black needle, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean that's, and that's why I am suggesting that we do a series of on this is that, at the end of the day, it's just about education?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's like we can do our little part to to put out this content and and talk about hospice and what the benefit is, because every single person, every, every piece, every single person in our age group is going to be experiencing this in the next 10 to 15 years with their parents with their parents. I mean, it's already starting. It's already starting, like I already have friends that I'm getting texts from when their, their parent, their elderly parent, is sick. So that is already happening. Sick so that is already happening.
Speaker 2:So if we do our part to educate. I just think that it can only help all our friends.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's what we're doing here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and it will help every nurse that doesn't get that patient.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Inappropriately.
Speaker 1:Right, right, because I think the situation's always the same when you get that patient yes, inappropriately, right, right, because I think the situation is always the same when you get the patient from the ER and you're like they're on hospice and you're just like what? And he's intubated yeah, like you intubated that patient.
Speaker 2:Now what are we going to do?
Speaker 1:You know, right it just it feels gross, it feels it's a moral injury. It is moral, yes, yes it is moral injury because you know that that fragile little soul who is just trying their body is just trying to die, their soul isn't in there and their body is just trying to die and we're doing everything we can do to stop it. And it's painful, it's so painful to watch and you're right, that would decrease a lot of that particular injury for for other nurses.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, we need, we need to do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we'll work on that and get get some interviews set up and just we could just do like a series on it. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know we work so authentically that as things come up, you know that we just it's kind of we're creating as we go for real, sure um and, and I think that's why it feels so just good and right to be doing this, because it's not a preset con, it's. You know, there's nothing, there's no motive, there's no ulterior motive, there's nothing, there's no money pushing us I mean, we're paying for this on our own to do this Right, you know.
Speaker 1:And so, yeah, I think anything we put out is is going to be beneficial. You know, and thinking about the episode with Riz, he talked a little bit about AI and I know that you have a a a fascination with it and you know we could talk a little bit about that and how it, how we, what our opinion is about, how, um, you know, because that that's just going to come bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. You know it's already starting and you know, as we move into the new year, uh, you know we may encounter that even more in the workplace and just in general.
Speaker 2:I, you know, I remember saying in that interview or in that conversation what's the difference between being human and this, this artificial consciousness or this mimicry of consciousness, something to that effect. I, I think, maybe, I think, maybe I am a little bit wrong in attributing it more power than it has actually. Um, in that, you know, like, if you, if you go back and you look through all the, the progression of technology throughout human history, the, the wrestling that is done by humanity with all of the advancements that it creates, is struggling to find the good over the bad. You know is like all of the elements have their positive and negative sides. Every progression has a positive and negative to it. It can be used for great good and it can be used for great harm, and this is, I think, just another advancement that we have created. You know, I heard actually I did have this conversation over the weekend with somebody that's just so incredibly intelligent and I think I think he mostly shifted my perspective in that um, he used the, the locomotive, as a, as an example.
Speaker 2:You know, everyone back in the day they said uh, you know, we're gonna. You know, you don't need a horse for your wagon anymore, we've got a, we got this thing. It's called a locomotive and you know this. This there's. There's a whole story that goes along with it. There's a guy in this, in this village, that every you know. This salesman comes to the village and he says, uh, you don't need a horse anymore. Uh, to carry your, your, your wagon, we've got a machine that's going to do it for, for you, and everybody's like so, uh, how many horses do the machine need? You know?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, yeah. And so they come up with the analogy of horsepower. It's like having 15 horses or, you know, 500 horses. I mean, can you imagine back then saying we're going to hitch 800 horses to this little cart? So the town says they're going to send one of the, the smartest guy from the, from the village, to go inspect this and see if it's real. The guy goes and sits, you know, sits down with this one of the knowers of knowledge, and and and he maybe used a chalkboard to describe exactly how steam works and and all this, but the.
Speaker 2:The point is is that these people couldn't possibly fathom that a machine could carry the wagon. It just, it just was beyond their capacity to understand. And yet here we are, all these years later, having done all of the wrestling, all of the refining, all of the, the uh development to create. I mean, our cars are so efficient, they're so incredible. I mean it's just mind boggling and um, and at the end of the day, what really shifted my perspective to a degree is that AI is just another machine. It's just another machine and it can be used for good and it can be used for harm.
Speaker 2:And at the end of the day, on the other end of that good-bad stick is the human, and how the human chooses to wield the power that they have created and been given will determine whether or not it's used for good or for bad, and I think that that is largely true.
Speaker 2:The only thing, the only pushback that I still have to my mostly negative bias towards it, or previous negative bias towards it, is that the fundamental difference is that this technology has an element of it that, ultimately, if you project into the future far enough, demands that we integrate the technology with our own biology when we haven't even figured out how to prevent hacking on our technological systems as they currently exist, which means that you're handing over your biological sovereignty to this technology and its susceptibility to external forces, and that I don't like at all. So that's the only piece of it that I still push back and say this is different from all of the other things, because none of the other things have demanded that we, that we integrate the technology with our biology and you think that it will become not a choice like will we be able to decide whether we're we want to partake in that or not?
Speaker 2:or you think it'll be well, I, I, I mean, I think all the scary movies about it. That's the picture. And then the resistance is some underworld of of humans that have decided not to participate. Um, and you know how much of that is just the fact that I've been programmed by those shows. But I think that it's an artificial form of enlightenment the ability to think a thought and have the information populate within your brain. It's severely limited If you integrate. Neuralink is the only one that I'm really aware of at this point. But you integrate a Neuralink where all you have to do is think a thought and you have all of the information populated in your brain. You're an enlightened being.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I can see where you'd say artificial because it's not your thoughts, right, right, yeah. Thoughts right right, uh. Yeah, I mean it is your thoughts, but it's being boosted by information that you did not come up with. But you say in the old days you had a thought. So, like in nursing school, when I went, you had a thought you had to go to the library. You go to the library, you had to check all the stuff out what's a library?
Speaker 1:right. You made the decision of what journals you were going to look in just based on your limited knowledge, but, but you had the idea. You went and you pulled that information, so that was your information. So now you know kids go to school now not even now, but like 10 years ago you could. Now you could get on google and you could look up stuff. You could go to different people's websites and find information. So the the, the amount of information that you had access to, was much more big, and now I just feel like with ai, it's just even bigger. The amount of information that's available is bigger, but your thoughts are still the same, and so that's just one very narrow use would be gathering information so that that brings up an interesting thing for me.
Speaker 2:Nietzsche was a philosopher that never actually produced a comprehensive philosophy that someone could sit down, study and adopt. His was more writings that were philosophical, but he was a professor um Back in the day and he renounced his professorship because it was impossible for him to interact with the texts that were coming out in in in a meaningful way to stay educated. So what I've read about him is that he was so overwhelmed by the volume of information that was available to him that he abandoned the pursuit of education and he ended up killing himself. Actually, he lost his mind because the thing that tipped him over the edge was that he saw someone beat a horse to death and it threw him into an existential crisis and he ended up killing himself. And I'm like, oh, that's it, yeah right, how many horrible things have we seen that we survived? Uh, it's, it's like. I mean, I think it would be upsetting to watch someone beat a horse.
Speaker 1:I absolutely think that would be well, and that was that was his.
Speaker 2:You know his, his journey, yeah but my point my point being that there is a saturation point of information that once you become like what's that? What's the acronym TLDR? Too long didn't read something, I don't know, that one I've heard it, but I don't know. Yeah, I think it's TLDR, when something's too long to read. Okay, oh, yeah you respond to read.
Speaker 1:Okay, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:You respond T-L-D-R.
Speaker 1:Yeah, too long to read.
Speaker 2:Like Nietzsche, was the first one to T-L-D-R.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he was like it's too much.
Speaker 2:It's too much. My brain can't possibly process all of this information. Yeah, and so he reduced his philosophy to very quippy anecdotes. And I'm not I can't even claim to be a knower of Nietzsche, I can only say that, well, I read In Emergency Break Glass, and it's a book about Nietzsche and his writings and it is written by a modern day knower of technology and things and philosophy and he's applying Nietzsche's writings to navigate the lack of meaning in a modern technological world. And it's a fascinating book, highly recommended. At the tippy top of my reading list. If you're interested in that sort of thing, we'll have a link to that book. It's fantastic, so good, I should read it again. Honestly, it's been a long time. It's been a long time since I read it. So that book, it's fantastic, so good, I should read it again. Honestly, it's been a long time. It's been a long time since I read it. So, yeah, highly recommend.
Speaker 1:Well, I think when it comes to, you know, nursing and healthcare in general, I think that AI will bring well, like you've already said, there's positive and negative to it, but I think it has, it could have a lot of benefits to reducing the amount of work necessary for charting. I feel like the use of it will be in, can be intuitive to what the nurse inputs. You know, just from the brief triage, from the brief, like a, like an admission history, you know that it will be able to draw. I just feel like charting these days it feels very clunky and it's like screen to screen and there's multiple things of the same thing in multiple different places and you know every charting system is different and even though you're you're gleaning the same information, you know which ultimately then, like you input the information, it spits out these interventions and that's how we kind of base our plan of care or whatever you want to say about that. And I feel like with using AI, it could be a lot more intuitive, it could be a lot more personalized and less clunky to create the document, the medical record, or the document that is created when we chart, because when we chart it's like you know, I've done some legal nurse consulting before and when you pull medical, when you pull the chart, you're, you're putting, you're putting the story together.
Speaker 1:That's it. You're putting together a picture of what happened day by day sequence of events. Who came in, what time was it? What time was the medication? Was it reassessed? Was their pain helped? When were they? You know, when were they taken off the ventilator? When were they put on oxygen? When did they do the abg? Why did they do the cats? You know so you're. So it creates. This narrative really is what the charting is. Well, and, as we know, charting is also made to extract information based on a payer system. So I'm not really talking about that, because that is another different conversation, whole different conversation.
Speaker 1:But what, what the charting does, do you know? Like, when I'm looking at a case, it it's. I'm not looking for payer, I'm not looking for information about that, I'm looking about the story of the patient and why they decided to do this. Or why were you documenting Q2 hour turns, or why was that even included and who added it and why did they add it and when did they add it and why weren't they turning before? But now they're turning and is there a wound? And the you know so different things like that. And I feel like AI could streamline a lot of that and make it much more honestly. It could even just spit out the story. So for anybody looking at medical records to try to see what happened, it would just be so simple. Ai could just extract all the information and then create a story, and I think it does that based on all the access to all of the things that it has.
Speaker 1:I mean, I am in no way in a position to be able to explain artificial intelligence, but just the brief times that I've used it and have been on there communicate, like I've had a, an account with OpenAI or whatever that is, for like two years and I've put in questions. I've put in what do you think about? I've put in my astrology. I've put in my astrology. I've put in um, create a cover letter. I've put in, you know so, all of my input into with that AI. I can now, two years later, ask it um, tell me, create a something or another of something or another of why create, create a mission for my new business or whatever you know, or create a mission for why I am coaching, or something like that, and it will.
Speaker 1:It will take everything it knows and everything that I have given it is information and create that and it is incredibly accurate and so it's very interesting and I I have no idea how and why it works, but the intention behind it, I think, is where, like what you've already said, that you know you can use it for good, you can use it for for bad and you know, as far as nursing and using it within the hospital, I do not worry that robots are going to replace nurses. I absolutely do not believe that that that that will happen. There may be certain aspects to nursing. You know, kind of like how you know surgeons, and now they've used the robots to do the knees and arthroscopies and they, you know, they use in brain surgery and and all that. You know they do use um, robotics and that's kind of artificial intelligence, um, but by no means I don't believe that it will take over a human I think it will, you do, I do eventually I don't know yet I don't know yet it's possible.
Speaker 2:yeah, I, I think I mean's. There's aspects of the job. I always this is one of the things that I I I always said this a monkey could do my job. Some parts of it, Some parts of it, for sure, For sure. It just gets to be so rote.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So much of it.
Speaker 1:You know that literally, I think anyone could do this job if they, if they were I mean if you took out all, if you took the nurse away from the bedside and had a monkey sitting there doing all that, those tasks, little tasks in the ER. That reminds me a lot of in the air, because ER, uh, for my opinion, is a lot of task. Nursing it's tasks.
Speaker 1:It is quick, it is fast paced and you really priority is tasks. You know IV fluids, medications, patients, patients scan. Looking this, looking at labs replacing fluids replacing magnesium, giving medicines, giving discharge instructions. Looking this looking at labs replacing fluids replacing magnesium, giving medicines giving discharge instructions. Da-da-da-da next. But I don't think a monkey would ever be able to replace the essence of nursing. The thinking element the ability to amalgamate the situation all the information on the patient, all the information on the drug.
Speaker 2:I know, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they could be taught to critically think. I, I believe. I believe artificial intelligence can critically think, but I don't. There's not the human connection, so that is scary if and the human connection.
Speaker 2:so that's, that's the last bit I don't think that I said about my. My perspective on on AI and how it's shifted from my conversations this weekend is that, at the end of the day, the fundamental difference is that we have a soul and it does not, and that is its limiting factor. It is soulless and so it ultimately is a tool that we are wielding and have the choice of how to do so.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, a tool. I do believe that as well. It's a tool, yeah, yeah. And just like you know, a hammer is also a tool, and you can use it to hammer nails, or you can use it to smash someone in the back of the head and kill them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's terrible.
Speaker 1:I mean it's a tool. Yeah, that's terrible. I mean it's a tool yeah. So you know you could be building a home for the homeless using your hammer or reminds me of crime and crime and punishment, that's to ask you.
Speaker 2:His book is essentially about that Using a hammer that way. Oh, interesting, it's pretty, it's pretty rough, fascinating book, goodness gracious. I love the online conversation. There's self-help books and there's classical literature and the classical literature. People are super critical of self-help books because all of the classical literature is story format of self-help and it's using stories and um, it's like dostoevsky, tolstoy. Those, I mean, those are my. I've spent the most time with those two by far. Um and uh would say that if you, if you pick up any of their works, what you're picking up is a psychoanalytic tool to understand yourself better. It's just hidden in story format.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think even the process of understanding that concept while you're reading the book is therapeutic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't, I don't know that it immediately presents itself as that, but no, no, no, oh, I don't think so, I don't think people know that they're doing that when they're doing that, but it, but it is.
Speaker 1:You know, when you pick up a self-help book, you're that's the intention, is like oh God hope this helps me and I'm gonna learn some stuff from this. But you know, if you would open your mind when you do read literature, especially in, you know, from historical literature, yeah, opening your mind to say what could this, even what could this be teaching me? It's not just entertainment. You know that's. They didn't write. They didn't write back then for entertainment. You know they were writing and for meaning and everything meant something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, how did we get, how did I, how did I get to classical literature?
Speaker 1:we have, we've, just we have, we've spanned the entire gamut yeah yeah, yeah, although we were just talking about books and you were, you were mentioning oh, the hammer, the hammer, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah so it's a gruesome scene yeah, I mean, I think you know, coming into 2025 it I don't think we'll particularly do things much different, but I think it feels like a like um, january feels like a springboard, like a spring off board, um, you know you get done with the holiday.
Speaker 1:It feels, you know what. What they call the end of the year, you know, is just a rolling wave to me. It's, you know, you start with the holiday, just the holiday, all of it, and I mean it's just, it's so much. And then you know January comes and it just feels like a kind of an open field you know, to do for me. And you know, especially this year, there was a lot that went on in 2024 that was heavy and affected a lot of people. That was heavy and affected a lot of people and, you know, bringing light and hope into the new year is what makes me feel good.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so I don't know what. What can, what can? What can our viewers look forward to with us with this podcast for this year?
Speaker 2:Well, I think the hospice series is a must, a must, must, must. Um, I would like to uh present we, I would like for you and I to sit down and watch the movie night at the museum and I will share with you how the museum is an allegory for mental health and do a special presentation on my analysis of night at the museum.
Speaker 2:That'd be good yeah yeah, that'd be that'd be a good one, yeah, so yeah, I would like to do that. I've wanted to do that for a long time um I've started on it. I have a, I have in my canva account. I already have um, some, um some of the some of the ideas written down and documented in there uh in a presentation format.
Speaker 2:So I don't know, maybe doing like a little, uh, retreat, maybe I'll come out and stay with you and Joe for a weekend and we'll just do it. Uh, we'll watch the movie and document it and figure out how to yeah, what it all means. Yeah, create something beautiful from it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because once I saw that it was like once I recognized it as an allegory and then started watching it. I've watched it so many times and studied it and it's just so beautiful. They did such an amazing job um with that movie. So I I would love to, I would love to know if, if that was truly their intention oh yeah yeah, I bet there's information out there on that i've've never seen anything on that.
Speaker 1:Interesting how about you?
Speaker 2:What do you want to bring into the year? What ideas do you have?
Speaker 1:Well, I feel like this year is more of a community year. I feel like 2024, I was pretty, you know, not isolated, because I've been isolated and that's not what this year has been. But you know, I finished up school and that was very time consuming for me and I want to be out community more, doing more, more things with others, just in general or, you know, in this capacity of you know, nursing you and just kind of aligning with the community, the Kansas City community where I live, you know, and kind of seeing where we might fit in, seeing where what we have to offer, you know is, is needed somewhere. Besides, you know, just on the waves of the internet, I like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I think about, yeah, I think about this podcast all the time. So it feels big, it feels meant to be, it feels like it's just beginning. Yeah, so and again yeah, happy new year. That's funny. If you feel, if you have any comments or ideas or you know we're open to whatever and you know like and share the podcast, that gets it out there more and I mean people are listening, they really are.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean those the numbers, it's crazy Lots. And to different countries. Even people are listening. They really are. Yeah, yeah, I mean those the numbers, it's crazy lots. Into different countries, even people are listening.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's wild that's, that's, that's crazy I know it really is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. I would love to hear from the people that are listening in foreign countries yeah same, yeah, yeah, and maybe we'll get somebody on who is in a foreign country and does have a different health system, and I would love to know what that's like to be in another country. Yeah, to know the differences and how things work and what their perception is about what the United States is. Yeah, yeah, that's anybody you know, I know, yeah, I know, oh God.
Speaker 2:Well, it was fun.
Speaker 1:It was yeah.
Speaker 2:I enjoyed it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, we will. I think we have a guest next week, but well, we'll see. We'll see, all right, all right, so we'll see everybody next week have a good week, everybody.
Speaker 2:Bye. We hope you've enjoyed this week's episode.
Speaker 1:Remember, the conversation doesn't end here.
Speaker 2:Keep the dialogue going by connecting with us on social media posted in the links below or by visiting our website.
Speaker 1:Together, let's continue to redefine nursing and shape a brighter future for those we care for. Until next time, take care, stay curious and keep nurturing those connections.
Speaker 2:And don't forget to be kind to yourself.