Nursing U's Podcast
Nursing U is a podcast co-hosted by Julie and Caleb. We embark on an educational journey to redefine nursing within the modern healthcare landscape.
Our mission is to foster an open and collaborative environment where learning knows no bounds, and every topic—no matter how taboo—is explored with depth and sincerity. We delve into the essence of nursing, examining the intimate and often complex relationships between nurses and their patients amidst suffering and death.
Through our discussions, we aim to highlight the psychological impacts of nursing and caregiving, not only on the caregivers themselves but also on the healthcare system at large.
Our goal is to spark conversations that pave the way for healing and innovation in healthcare, ensuring the well-being of future generations.
'Nursing U' serves as a platform for examining the state of modern civilization through the lens of nursing, tackling issues that range from violence, drugs, and sex to family, compassion and love. We will utilize philosophy, religion and science to provide context and deeper understanding to the topics we tackle.
By seamlessly weaving humor with seriousness, we create a unique tapestry of learning, drawing wisdom from the experiences of elders and the unique challenges faced in nursing today.
Join us at 'Nursing U,' where we cultivate a community eager to explore the transformative power of nursing, education, and conversation in shaping a more whole and healthier world."
Disclaimer:
The hosts of 'Nursing U', Julie Reif and Caleb Schraeder are registered nurses; however, the content provided in this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only. Nothing shared on this podcast should be considered medical advice nor should it be used to diagnose or treat any medical condition. Always seek the guidance of your doctor or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition or health concerns. The views expressed on this podcast are personal opinions and do not represent the views of our employers or our professional licensing bodies.
Nursing U's Podcast
Ep #022 PT 2 - Embracing Chaos: Self-Awareness, Balance, and the Future of Hospice Care in Nursing
Have you ever felt like life is pulling you in every direction, leaving you merely a passenger rather than the driver of your own journey? We invite you to explore this metaphor with us as we uncover the hidden potential of self-awareness and living in the present to shape future outcomes. We draw fascinating parallels between the tangible connections of yesteryears and today's ethereal digital networks, emphasizing the critical role of spiritual structures amidst increasing technology. With humor and insightful discussions, we aim to inspire both personal healing and collective innovation, challenging the status quo of how we engage with the world around us.
Picture a future where rapid technological advancements blur the lines between reality and imagination. In an era where exponential growth in knowledge can be as exciting as it is daunting, the need for intuition and openness becomes paramount. We share our experiences in nursing, where staying calm amid chaos is not just a professional skill but a tool for personal growth. By embracing the concept of surrendering to the moment, we reveal how these skills can cultivate resilience, offering valuable lessons on managing internal and external chaos.
As we navigate the complexities of modern life, we turn our attention to a topic often shrouded in misconceptions: the value of hospice care. We discuss the ethical and logistical challenges surrounding end-of-life care, advocating for earlier enrollment in hospice services to alleviate moral distress for healthcare workers and reduce costs. Alongside this, we emphasize the importance of rest and balance in our fast-paced lives, exploring how mindfulness can enrich personal relationships. Through candid reflections, we share insights from 27 years of marriage, highlighting the importance of grace, understanding, and mutual effort in sustaining long-term connections. Join us for a thought-provoking conversation that encourages reflection on your role in the healthcare landscape and beyond.
Hi, I'm Julie.
Speaker 2:And I'm Caleb. Welcome to Nursing U, the podcast where we redefine nursing in today's healthcare landscape. Join Julie and I as we step outside the box on an unconventional healing journey.
Speaker 1:Together, we're diving deep into the heart of nursing, exploring the intricate relationships between caregivers and patients with sincerity and depth.
Speaker 2:Our mission is to create an open and collaborative experience where learning is expansive and fun.
Speaker 1:From the psychological impacts of nursing to the larger implications on the healthcare system. We're sparking conversations that lead to healing and innovation.
Speaker 2:We have serious experience and we won't pull our punches. But we'll also weave in some humor along the way, because we all know laughter is often the best medicine.
Speaker 1:It is, and we won't shy away from any topic, taboo or not, from violence and drugs to family and love, we're tackling it all.
Speaker 2:Our nursing knowledge is our base, but we will be bringing insights from philosophy, religion, science and art to deepen our understanding of the human experience.
Speaker 1:So, whether you're a nurse, a healthcare professional or just someone curious about the world of caregiving, this podcast is for you.
Speaker 2:One last thing, a quick disclaimer before we dive in. While we're both registered nurses, nothing we discuss here should be taken as medical advice. Always consult with your doctor or a qualified healthcare provider for any medical concerns you may have. The views expressed here are our own and don't necessarily reflect those of our employers or licensing bodies.
Speaker 1:So let's get started on this journey together. Welcome to Nursing U, where every conversation leads to a healthier world, and not berating yourself, not judging yourself, not focusing on all the external things that made you that way, because none of that matters. It really is just where you are, and if you can stop and see right where you are current now, that's where then you can change your future and where you're going. If you're constantly looking at the back of the bus, you're never going to know where you're going.
Speaker 2:You're right. Feels like you're a passenger.
Speaker 1:Yes, I think we talked about this.
Speaker 2:I think we have.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the passenger and the driver. I feel, like maybe I don't know where we heard that but being the driver, which I guess would be synonymous with, like the agent of your life. You're the driver, you're saying to you and all yourselves where we're going, versus, like you know, being in the passenger seat and just being a rider or shit. You know being all the way in the back where you have no control and maybe you're even sitting backwards. You know. It's just an evaluation, like where, where are you? Where?
Speaker 2:are you in your life?
Speaker 1:where are you? And the driver's seat cannot be mistaken for like control, because it's not. It's not who has control over the vehicle, it's who's driving and creating the path, versus, like, I only drive with a map, you know, and I have to have full control, because if you're, if you're gripped on the steering wheel and you feel like you're in the fucking driver's seat, it most of the time, if that's not, or you're just driving an electric car, who's on one of those rides at Worlds of Fun? Where were those? Where the where the car? Just you think you're driving, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're being driven, yeah.
Speaker 2:It kind of brings up for me just all the ideas of the kind of, you know, web3, blockchain, all of these things are very much ethereal. So I don't know if I've have I shared the idea that the first time that we sent, with, the first time that we communicated through sound waves, um, we crossed into an ethereal plane? Have I presented that idea on here? Okay, so the idea is that if, if, if, if we have a time travel and we go back and we pick up somebody from the 1700s, from the Enlightenment period they're becoming scientifically aware, 1800s maybe becoming scientifically aware, science has proven some things. But you bring that person forward to today, like it.
Speaker 2:Just imagine going back there and you've got an iphone and you're dressed the way that we're dressed. We would, number one, look like aliens, uh, but we would be trying, we'd meet some, some guy and or a girl, and and the conversation would would go actually let's, let's, push, push the person forward to someone who understands telephones. Okay, let's to whatever time frame that was. We, we've hit that place, um, we grab that person and you give them, you show them this phone and you punch like it's, you and I are back at that time and we're explaining how we communicate through phones and um and we dial and we my phone rings to your phone, but there's no physical connection. It makes no sense. It would make no sense to that person. They they are so bound up in the physical experience of life that this idea would be magic.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It would just be magic. And so you bring, so you take this idea that back then everything was physically connected and come forward to today, where we have the ability to communicate through the ether. I don't know how my I mean I understand triangulation. I know that this cell phone tower over here and this cell phone tower over here and this one over here, they're all communicating and my phone pings to this one and it pings to that one and it pings to that one and you can pinpoint within inches. I mean, we're using triangulation, we're using that technology to map our mouth.
Speaker 2:They put this wand in my mouth and they mapped the whole thing like all through triangulation, all through this, this process, that like, that's how we kind of transcended the physical plane and created this ethereal way of communicating. And so when I think about that, the more ethereal that we get, the more, the further, the further we separate our minds from physicality, the more important the spiritual structures become. Because, like, like, if you were, if you were entirely a spiritual being, you would, you would cease to exist if you, if you go and you be that monk and you like, if you like, if someone was truly capable of being that like, like, let's say like somebody who, um, is imprisoned for some ideological belief and it is a spiritual task that they are on to make this change and they're going to starve themselves because they believe so deeply in this thing. They become fully spiritual, they're completely disconnecting from their spirituality and they die.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like that body dies. The body dies spiritual. They're completely disconnecting from their spirituality and they die. Yeah, like that body dies the body dies.
Speaker 2:So if you're either one, you know, I think that's like a to drive the point home the like enlightenment, thinking. What we're talking about here today is all physicality, and like. This is why I'm studying the enlightenment period, because I'm trying to understand why nurses are killing themselves. Why did I want to die? Yeah, I mean, I didn't want to die, but I wanted to die, all of the confusion that was driving that, that experience. For me, it was so physical that and the spiritual side didn't, it wasn't, it was so imbalanced that I didn't want to be here anymore.
Speaker 2:And so the real task that we have as we move forward is connecting the spiritual and the physical. I know that I mean intuitively, experientially, it just is true. It's the truest thing maybe that I've said on here, and trying to understand evidence-based practice is, to me, probably the most important work that I can do in this space, because I believe that it holds within it the deep truth of why we don't. I mean it's not just nurses. This idea I mean I mean it's not just nurses, this idea I mean permeates our entire society.
Speaker 1:Because suffering is not just something that nurses do. Suffering is something that everybody does.
Speaker 1:It's human learning and practicing the connection between your spiritual and your physical parts, because that that has alleviated a lot of my suffering and we could do a whole podcast on that. But you know, I think we got to hear by what are some ways you know, or how do we deal with kind of the unknown of the future, you know, and just future in general and technology and things that will continue to come. I mean, you know, just like we went back and showed you know, the person from the 50s, our cell phone and it was like how could they even believe it it would be, it would be imaginary, it would be something that someone dreamt about, it would be. But it's, it is. It is a grounded way about yourself to move through a lot of these changes that are going to happen. It is, things never stay the same. It seems like it is, but you could say never. Or you know they're always changing and it might not be minute to minute, but it definitely is decade to decade and it definitely is every 25 years.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, no, that's. That's the thing that the scientist was saying is that the rate of the rate at which we are exponentially growing in knowledge is like down to, I think, months. Yeah, I mean it's astronomical, yeah, yeah just because of the.
Speaker 1:That's just the way that it is. Now, you know, it starts out slow kind of. It's kind of the opposite of like, you know, when the baby is born, if you continue to grow like that, you would be like a giant, you know. But the growth, yeah right, this is kind of opposite. So the growth is slow, and the more advanced we get, the more technology, the quicker it can go, and it and it is. I mean, it just is, and we're feeling it and I think that's why we're talking about it. We don't, we don't sit down and like make a decision and be like, well, what should we do? We're very intuitive, we are feeling something, and so that's why we talk about it and I'm sure that-.
Speaker 2:It's an exploration, we're exploring.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Of things that come into our thoughts and clearly the future is changing. I mean, there were so many things that happened, even just this year. It just is, and so I think it's, you know, kind of on the front of our minds, thinking about it and wondering and, you know, being open to it and then also being grounded so that you aren't scared and you don't you live in fear of you know, oh my God, you know it's like, oh okay, you know, just an attitude of openness and and kind of knowing where we fit in with all that.
Speaker 2:I do think we're uniquely positioned with the experiences that we have and the time that we're in. I mean, I think I saw that when I first went into nursing, I saw that. I think I saw the potential to figure out what my place would be in it was. I think that it was so large that I, I think I knew that I would be able to come up with some solution to some problem. I intuitively, I think I I foresaw that I it was part of my part of my decision going into nursing that there would be. I would get my experience and figure something out. I don't know. I don't think there's no way that I could have known what it was and I still don't know exactly what it is, but I think we're doing it.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, I think you know the stage of our, the journey that we had on on ourselves and then to be able to just feel the, the need to share it, that all means something and it's it's like listening to your inner dialogue that you're like am I making that up? Did I just make that up, or is that from like a movie, or is that is someone telling me? Am I hearing that up? Did I just make that up, or is that from like a movie, or is that is someone telling me? Am I hearing something you know? So kind of the learning to discern what those are, but but knowing that the possibilities for all of this and and I just I don't know the word surrender is a lot today. For me, it really is just surrendering to a knowing and allowing it to flow and just being able to stay in that flow state is really what I'm practicing these days.
Speaker 2:I mean I always say that one of our skills as critical care nurses is to be comfortable in uncomfortable situations.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for real is to be comfortable in uncomfortable situations.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for real. And that requires a surrender to the moment and allowing. You know that's kind of the navigational component to what we do that we navigate those critical situations with a calmness that is rooted in surrendering to the chaos that is in front of us and addressing in real time every problem that emerges, and it's just so present. It's so present and so mindful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, don't you think too that it's prepared us to be here today, to go through some of the things in our lives that we've gone through? It's like you can learn that practice and skill, or, for me, I learned it in my career, but then I was able to use those same skills with myself, on myself, you know so you got chaos in the room and you got alarms, beeping and IVs and this year flipping this and getting the drugs.
Speaker 1:And you know that, being in IVs and this, you're flipping this and getting the drugs. And you know that and you learn to manage it because you can't just leave.
Speaker 1:You can't just give the patient to somebody else. You have to press on and you will, and we do, and you make it to the end of your shift hoping that patient is still alive, doing all that stuff. But the skills that you learn doing that even a med search nurse, managing that chaos of all of those patients, whatever it is you can use those skills to then start understanding the chaos within yourself.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm. Absolutely.
Speaker 1:By knowing you cause you. You've been there and you've done it, and so you know that you have the capability to stay, to stay with, to learn understanding, to be compassionate. Non-judging you know you're never judging that patient in there when you're dripping drips and flipping bags and do you know you're not cussing that patient, you're just because it is. It just is the situation and allowing that same mentality for ourselves, that it just is things you went through as a child, things you've gone through in your career, things you've seen people you've dealt with. It just is. And so, using that skill of managing chaos, you can manage your own chaos. And I didn't really even know I was doing that when I was managing my own chaos until I stepped way back and was like this is literally what you're doing, so see how good you are at it. So everything that comes up now is an opportunity to practice that you to practice that you know all the things that have happened in these last several years.
Speaker 1:You could take it as like oh my God, the things they just keep happening. Why is this? Happening to me Versus, like it's happening. I can practice. I'm practicing now, you know. I'm practicing not freaking out. I'm practicing managing how I am in this crisis.
Speaker 2:I love this term. It was in that podcast that I sent you the term existential maturity, and that's, I think, is part of this. That's one label that like there are many labels to the thing that we're like hashing out here but the experience of having to go through all of the isolation that nurses experience is that the others around them lack the existential maturity that they have, and they and so but, but you're still bound up in the trappings of of a society and the, the norms of that society that exist without existential maturity. Yeah, and that was rooted back in life expectancies that we just have. It's not part of our consciousness, I mean it is. It's almost like death became taboo and something solely to be avoided versus embraced as a natural function of life. Yeah, the most human thing that we could do.
Speaker 1:Totally, because it was that. It was that at one point and now it's not. But I really think it needs to move back towards that, because the only way that you it's like a glass of stagnant water, the only way you keep it fresh is to keep water pouring in and water coming out. It's got to move, it has to be a flow. So if you're keeping everybody alive artificially, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Just let bodies flow, let the souls flow in and out, in and out I mean that gets into such a hairy topic to me, because it I mean the idea that saving saving a life is massively important, preserving life it's amazing that we're able to do it and we shouldn't ever stop trying to fight for life. The idea of just letting it flow and and it kind of brings up you know, all the people that are propped up on on the medicines artificially, that that they you know. When you say that it, I think it brings up should, should we be doing that? Should we be propping people up because it's created a situation where and I've said this so many times we have a mountain of death in front of us? We've been because we've been holding onto it in this artificial means, but then saving a life is the most like, it's great, like we should do that, yeah, so what is the like when all of these people, when the expiration date comes due on their DNA and it doesn't matter how much amio we give them or, you know, epi or whatever, you know whatever drug it is that we're going to give them the baby boom generation is so huge and that expiration date has been extended artificially, it is going to create such a heavy burden, and so are we doing the right thing by that? That is a hairy situation to figure out.
Speaker 2:I am not saying that we shouldn't we should absolutely be saving the lives, but we have to figure out how to navigate that mountain of death, which is why I want to do the hospice thing, because I view it as a pressure outlet valve.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that, if hospice nurses, if, if, if, if, if the population understands the service of hospice and they choose to go on it earlier. Because the statistic is that most people enter hospice within the last one month of life, where the benefit for hospice, from a Medicare perspective, is that it is a six-month benefit, so most people are only using one month of that benefit. And if public education were successful, everyone would be maximizing that six month benefit. And because you're educated and you're going through that process more slowly, the critical situations that we find ourselves in, where we are experiencing moral, uh, injury, where we're pounding on the chest of an 103 year old Meemaw and we break every bone in there, knowing that we shouldn't be doing it, those situations are are alleviated on the healthcare workers. That's, that's, that's how I see hospice and the value of it, and um, and I just think you know I? I think that's the answer to the hairy situation of yeah, I mean definitely one.
Speaker 1:It's definitely one answer. And if it could be, I mean, can you imagine, over the whole entire united states, if everyone that qualified took advantage of that six-month hospice benefit?
Speaker 2:yeah, so it's it would. It would alleviate so much suffering on everyone because, because, so because so much of all, yeah, everyone. I think the hospitals would make more money because we wouldn't be doing an appropriate. I mean, how many people do we keep alive on full court press, balloon, pump, intubation, all the things? You know? What do we call it Cryotherapy, where we freeze them, you know, we put them under the ice, yeah, hypothermia, hypothermia protocol. Yeah, you know those patients are the daily charge on. That is like what? $500,000? Yeah, a day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, I mean it would definitely save. It would save the hospital a lot of money because you know, I think a lot of those patients who come back in and back in, back in because they're dying, dying A lot of times Medicare doesn't pick up the tab for that, especially if it's a readmission after such as you know, they got so many rules the hospital has to follow about being able to be reimbursed and you know, if people were taking advantage of the hospice benefit that that is already in place, which is almost incredible really, but because it's been, it's only a benefit, it benefits everybody involved and I don't know why it's not used more. I don't know why it's not pushed more.
Speaker 2:Well, I think that this is one of the injustices that I think our political system has created, that we, you know, having the you know and I don't know anything about politics but the bipartisan system where this one presents an idea and this one rebuts it, you know, I think that what I've seen is that every time that the topic of dying with dignity is brought up, it's repackaged as death panels, packaged uh, as uh, death panels.
Speaker 2:So it's politicized that, oh, they just want to kill you because they're there, because I don't even know why. But it's political, it's just politicized. So the the public has the perception that once you go on hospice and this is why it's only, it's underutilized uh, only a month of the service, uh, out of six months is predominantly because they believe that once, that, once you're on hospice, you're just going to die, and that's just not the case. Yeah, the hospice service provides really a holistic care modality to the patient. That that you know, it's how can we help you transition from this place to the next and uh, and do so comfortably and with dignity.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's a beautiful thing and that's where the education piece comes in in my mind that if, if, we could properly educate the public, because that's I mean, the let's be honest, hollywood has educated the public on what we can do and it's absurd. It has created so many false expectations, unrealistic expectations, that we end up in the in the er waiting room or in the ICU having to educate when we could be doing so many other things, that it's the expectations and the reality are incongruent.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, they are, yeah, and so you know, I think that it's I mean, really that's kind of another future, future of nursing, if you want to kind of wrap that all up. It really it really is a part of something that I know you're very passionate about and with this new job that you started, you know we're we're all where we're supposed to be and we all move to things where we are, and I think you know this for you has been an eye-opening kind of experience and something that you know we we plan to speak more on, you know, on this podcast, and you know we're putting together a, hopefully, what will be like a series that we can put out, with different aspects of hospice and and so that we can, you know, do our part to to try and educate about it, about the benefit and what it is and what it's not, and, you know, debunk myths or you know whatever, and have have some people, people, other experts on that that really really can can speak to exactly exactly what it is, and you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cause I'm my only perspective. Yeah, because my only perspective is how do we alleviate the pressure on the critical care nurse? That's our experience, that's my experience, and so, as I have navigated this new role, I just see that so clearly that it's underutilized. And the real trick in the education piece for that is figuring out how to show the hospitals that providing referrals to the different hospice agencies benefits them.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That that all of this heroic measures unnecessary heroic measures are costing them millions of dollars a year. If we can figure out how to do that, hospitals would, I think, jump on board with. Yeah, they have to. They it just like in my mind there is no other like, not not that hospice is the only answer. There are other answers, but there is no option for the hospitals to do nothing. It's not. It's just the volume of death that is coming is so great that we have to, and that's just in that propped up population.
Speaker 1:Yeah. You know, yeah, yeah, for real.
Speaker 2:I mean it's, it is. I mean that was I know I've shared the story before, but I'll share briefly again. That night in the ICU, when we were out of Lasix and we had a bunch of lungers cause it was a hot, humid summer and they couldn't breathe, and I'm pulling the last bottle of Lasix out of the hospital and, uh, the, the panic that I experienced, knowing how all of the other hospitals are out, to how many people are going to die because of this. And you know, luckily we had, you know, we, we do have other medicines and they did work, just not as well. Um, but it was such a eye opener to the artificial, artificially artificial capability. Just just how pervasive the prompt is. Yeah, how pervasive the prompt is yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, you saw that in COVID too. I mean, you saw that in COVID too with the distribution of the ventilators and who got this and who got this. I mean you know, we are heavy on artificially keeping people alive. Sure, because when the equipment and the things are not there, there's a lot of people are dying.
Speaker 1:You know that book. You're reading the Enlightenment. It feels like a high level subject, but then as you kind of read it, I don't know. They were seeking for meaning, understanding, movement, forward, reasons for things. And it really is no different than we're still doing that today, still seeking, we're still searching for new ways, new technology to do improvements, to make it faster, to make it better, to keep people alive, to keep. You know, we're, we're, we're always looking for something that will better the future.
Speaker 1:You can say, say that, but you don't really know until it comes and sometimes it's not for the best. But I think you know the seeking and trying to. You know even, even the, the people. You know the, the theorists and the philosophers and you know their high level thinking. But really the essence of it is just what is next? Where am I now and what is next and what are my steps for moving along with that? Once you get a sense that you really should move, you've got to move along with it. You know. And what, what are those steps, what, what is our place in it? I mean hearing you say all of that. You know, and what, what are those steps? What, what is our place in it?
Speaker 2:I mean hearing you say all of that. You know it is fundamentally human to seek and search and explore nature and it brings up the question for me what role rest plays in that. That's really what came up. If you follow the biblical creation of six days, at the end of each day it was good and then it rested. God rested, and the idea that God rested well, one is an anthropomorphic idea that this all creative force could do such a human thing as rest. What does it mean to rest God? If we're exploring this idea that God put into motion all of the natural elements and cycles and everything that we experience in this world, all of that was thrust into experience was moving forward and playing out, and God left, left. It left it to be, not in the sense that that he has no control.
Speaker 2:She got like I'm plenty fine with God being gender fluid, I guess in the sense that either one of those forms is anthropomorphic, something that we can't understand, that you know, like the idea that if you, if you, could understand what God is, it would mean that you were God, I. We can't understand whatever created all of this. It's so beyond our ability. So applying male and female labels to that creative force is just kind of a silly task to me, is my point and that is where I was going with that is that it's not to say that God is hands-off and not actively involved in his creation, but that he stopped, I guess, trying to control it or manipulate it, and even those are, I think, human terms there. You know, and that's kind of where I'm, what I'm leaning or going towards, is that all of this striving like listening to what you were saying, there was no balance in it whatsoever. It's just striving forward and pushing forward, and so many of the progressive ideas are just us being busy with progressing.
Speaker 2:And to what end?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:To what end? Yeah, to what end? Why, like, let's just like they're what? How can we? I mean, modernity is so busy, it is so busy, everything is vying for your attention, it's overwhelming and there is no rest. I mean, that's again goes back to the, the thing that I've said so many times suicide is the seduction of rest because we aren't getting it. Yeah, we're not taking care of the soul. Yeah, well, and we're not right.
Speaker 1:We're not taught that. We're not. We were never taught the difference. We were never taught that that exists. And if you don't know that that inner part of you exists and that it's the inner part that needs rest, you'll burn out. I mean, that's why that happens. It's overwhelmed for your body and your mind. And you know, maybe God was just offering a reflection of you know what, because he may not have needed the rest, but he took the rest.
Speaker 2:Sure yeah, but it's for us yeah.
Speaker 1:For us, yeah, and the world we live in does not rest. The care is 24 hours, shifts are 24 hours, the text messages from the hospital with needs 24 hours it are, you know, the pulling of everything that we should and have to do and we need to do. And you know, especially over this, you know season of holidays and birthdays, and you know it's, it's the seduction of rest is real. And if it were shed a better light like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, I rest, yeah, I, you rest too. Oh God, if we talked about rest and like sleep like you talk about drinking on the weekend, you know what I mean. They're like.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, oh yeah, you drank when you got home, oh, I rested so good, yeah, yeah. And just you know the letdown of that. Like part of it, I think, is because you do, you have to be, you're only with yourself. So even if you're not asleep, then you are and you're resting. It's an awkward place to be if you're not used to it. And so that pull to always be with someone, always have someone in the room, always be something on the agenda, something you got to go to somewhere, you got to do something you're doing for somebody else work, you know all the the, the noise and but, and then you're told to just rest.
Speaker 1:There's so many people who cannot rest. They can't. It's control, yeah, control. And it's uncomfortable to be in that state of rest, awake and just resting, like telling yourself I'm taking this afternoon off and I'm just going to read. Or you know people who, when they wrote that enlightenment book, that's all people did was read, you know, and? But now it feels guilty, like well, what'd you do this afternoon? Well, I got caught up in a book. I read. I read for like three hours. You know like what? That's crazy. Read, I read for like three hours. You know like what.
Speaker 2:That's crazy. Resting is is a challenge for a lot of people. I don't know. I think it's an experience. It's a nest. I mean we spend how much of our lives sleeping?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it should be way more. It should be, it should be way more. But we really don't and we push, push, push, push, push till you're exhausted and you can give no more. You know I there's this app, or the, the measurement of um. You know, watches can measure your heart rate and your, you know you do all that. But there's another measurement. It's called the um. Of course, I can't think of it right now, but it's the. It's the measurement between the beats, but anyways it's it's not a pr interval.
Speaker 1:It's not a PR interval, it's not the RR, it's not, it's the milliseconds. No, it's the milliseconds between. Let me just see if I can find it. But when there are irregularities in that it can predict your physical, like how physically ill you are. Physically ill you are. Why can I find it? Hold on, we're pausing.
Speaker 1:I got to find it because I got to be able to say what it is. So it's heart rate variability is what is able to be measured. And there's apps and you can use your iPhone, you put your finger on the camera and it kind of like you would measure your oxygen saturation or your heart rate. But it measures the variability between each beat or rate the rate and there's lots of things that I don't understand, lots of words, but predicts stress on your body. And I thought, oh good, okay, I'll get this, I'll get this. And it takes your sleep into account. It takes mostly, it's just the measurement and there's multiple things that go along. Um, mostly it's just the measurement and there's multiple things that go along and most of it's stress that can disrupt this heart rate variability.
Speaker 1:And I had to shut it off because every notification it was telling me all the time. You should rest, you should take it easy. And I was like I slept well last night, like it easy, and I was like I slept well last night, like I don't really feel that stressed, but it's the. I feel like it's the in doing things that you're not really resting. And clearly my definition of rest is not what changes my physical. You know chemistry and makeup and so I'm still trying to figure it out.
Speaker 1:I had to shut the notifications off. I couldn't take it anymore. It was like slow down, you need to get better sleep, you know, and and I do meditate and I do go out in nature because I was like how do you increase your? It's not even an increase. It's like how do I improve my heart rate variability? And it was things like that, like be mindful, meditation, go get in nature, ground yourself, gratitude, sun spotting, noticing, noticing the beauty of this earth, all things that when I looked it up and I'm kind of doing, I am doing those things, and it was still my heart rate variability, was still triggering the notifications, tell me, and so I don't know.
Speaker 1:Definitely a work in progress. And it's not just about sleeping, it has to be something else. There's more to it, that our chosen actions and behaviors and thoughts do actually affect our physical makeup and the nature of our body.
Speaker 2:So how do we leave people? We've kind of just melded one long session into two episodes.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:How do we send people off?
Speaker 1:Well, just some summaries would be. There's a lot of changes on the horizon in the future. A lot of them are going to affect health care and nursing and wellness and illness. There's going to be a lot of people dying because of age and the baby boom generation is old and they are dying and that trickle down effect can will leave an impact and you know, as nurses and health care providers, where will you fall on in the impact. You know where. What will you be doing to protect yourself and your soul your physical body and your soul from?
Speaker 2:being carried off by the waves of suffering and death.
Speaker 1:Suffering and death. And, you know, I think I think awareness and noticing is what a lot of people will start doing now. It just feels like it's moving. That way, people will be taking more notice and and understanding more how how things actually physically are are physically affecting them and that, although you can't really may not be able to do anything about what's happening externally, it still doesn't have to be detrimental to you. You know, you can move through those moments and and or rise above and or, you know, go with the flow, but that takes practice and we can use the little opportunities in our life to practice those. You know, those, those things. It's not just, it's a life practice that that allows us to deal with work, family crisis. It's just a lot of food for thought.
Speaker 2:I think we covered a lot of topics today. I feel like they were congruent for the most part. Everything that you're saying about the mindfulness movement and observing ourselves, being observers of ourselves, is, in a lot of ways, kind of like a product of existing and like I'm viewing myself from here, from up here, looking down, and then if I can look at myself from up here, then I can look at myself over here and over here, and the more that I'm able to articulate, you know, my outside observer eye on myself, the more whole I can be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because you can. You are viewing your own cracks, you are viewing your own place, and if you're viewing that, then you can also control that.
Speaker 2:You can make changes, then you can also control that you can make changes.
Speaker 1:Yes, you can control yourself within that. You can't control the outside influences, but you can control yourself and how you move through that. And it does start with observing. I do that when I meditate Sometimes I try to get my, I try to remove myself from myself as practice, just watch, just watch, and honestly, it has helped me in.
Speaker 1:Like you know, when you're married, it's typically your spouse is the one that most triggers you. That's because you're together all the time. I mean it's your kids and your spouse, right, when I get triggered, I do get triggered less these days, but when I do, I have taught myself and and have learned that I don't have to just respond Like I. The longer I practice, the more distance from the actual trigger and my response there is, and that allows me. It doesn't always work, but that allows me to offer myself an opportunity to look at the situation differently and that it is not always about me and I can change my reaction. And that has been a nice little gift after you know, 27 years of marriage.
Speaker 1:Wow, congratulations on that, I mean it's a, it's big, yeah, will it be? I think it will coming up on 27. Will it be? I think it we're coming up on 27 after the 25 you kind of forget. We got married in 98. That's wild five. No, we are 27, so it'll be 20. 28, it'll be 28 there's a quote.
Speaker 2:Uh, I want to say socrates, and I'm I'm going to try to get it right. Love is the soul that exists in two bodies. There's one soul that exists in two bodies.
Speaker 1:You two became one person, although separate, right In two bodies, but it describes perfectly the reflection that we see, and so what we're seeing is a reflection of what's within. I think we talked about that on the podcast, where I had lost weight and I looked different. But what you're seeing on the outside is a reflection from within. So that also means that you are seeing yourself in your spouse, and they are you, if they realize and so understanding. That has also then allowed me to give him a lot more grace, as I would myself. You know, like that is a reflection of you and things that I'm triggered about. It's not him doing that to me, it's me. It's something that within me that, however you want to pass, you have an expectation.
Speaker 2:That is yeah, right, yeah, yeah, you have an expectation.
Speaker 1:That is Right. Yeah, yeah, so that that is a good definition of the. The love is now with within two people, but it is actually the same.
Speaker 2:I'm just thinking it's like. It's like you're like the way you said it you're 27 this year Like like it's one person. Right, like it's a person. Yeah, yeah, it's. Yeah, yeah, it is.
Speaker 1:And it has to be, and it has to be treated by both parties similarly, because if it's disproportionate, then that's when things just break. You know, and although we've been disproportionate at times, what keeps you together is bringing it back to some kind of even, even ground. Yeah, Not easy and just like anything, any crisis you're going through. You know it's like this is not easy, but you know the will to keep going, maintain your sanity while you're doing it. You know that shift will be over, That'll, that era is done, that season will pass. You know, after 27 years, you see, we've seen a lot of seasons. You know we're both much more mature now and and are able to view view it from, like, a non-selfish perspective. You know, view it from our marriage and what it is versus, like, you know, him and me. Yeah, A lot of work. Yeah, I don't know how we got talking about that, but longevity well, I mean you just.
Speaker 2:You said something about how long you've been married and I complimented how amazing that is in today's age oh, because we're talking about triggers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, but if it's not a spouse, it's going to be somebody, it's going to be a co-worker it's going to be yeah, oh, my god, my God, some child Like it doesn't matter. Oh, I still get triggered, oh I still get triggered.
Speaker 2:Oh my, we all do. It's the work.
Speaker 1:It's the work, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, we will keep bringing these podcasts to you, as we love to do it, and there's always something that someone needs to hear. So we continue to ask you to share and like and post questions and comments and we will respond. Answer, have you on the podcast and we'll be back next week.
Speaker 2:Adios, adios. We hope you've enjoyed this week's episode.
Speaker 1:Remember, the conversation doesn't end here.
Speaker 2:Keep the dialogue going by connecting with us on social media posted in the links below or by visiting our website.
Speaker 1:Together, let's continue to redefine nursing and shape a brighter future for those we care for. Until next time, take care, stay curious and keep nurturing those connections.
Speaker 2:And don't forget to be kind to yourself.