Nursing U's Podcast
Nursing U is a podcast co-hosted by Julie and Caleb. We embark on an educational journey to redefine nursing within the modern healthcare landscape.
Our mission is to foster an open and collaborative environment where learning knows no bounds, and every topic—no matter how taboo—is explored with depth and sincerity. We delve into the essence of nursing, examining the intimate and often complex relationships between nurses and their patients amidst suffering and death.
Through our discussions, we aim to highlight the psychological impacts of nursing and caregiving, not only on the caregivers themselves but also on the healthcare system at large.
Our goal is to spark conversations that pave the way for healing and innovation in healthcare, ensuring the well-being of future generations.
'Nursing U' serves as a platform for examining the state of modern civilization through the lens of nursing, tackling issues that range from violence, drugs, and sex to family, compassion and love. We will utilize philosophy, religion and science to provide context and deeper understanding to the topics we tackle.
By seamlessly weaving humor with seriousness, we create a unique tapestry of learning, drawing wisdom from the experiences of elders and the unique challenges faced in nursing today.
Join us at 'Nursing U,' where we cultivate a community eager to explore the transformative power of nursing, education, and conversation in shaping a more whole and healthier world."
Disclaimer:
The hosts of 'Nursing U', Julie Reif and Caleb Schraeder are registered nurses; however, the content provided in this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only. Nothing shared on this podcast should be considered medical advice nor should it be used to diagnose or treat any medical condition. Always seek the guidance of your doctor or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition or health concerns. The views expressed on this podcast are personal opinions and do not represent the views of our employers or our professional licensing bodies.
Nursing U's Podcast
Ep #026 - Transforming Trauma: Can Herbs Change Our Lives? featuring Jeanaya Thomas
In today's episode, we dive deep into the fascinating intersection of nutrition, mental health, and herbal medicine. Join Julie and Caleb as they welcome expert herbalist Jeanaya Thomas, who brings a wealth of knowledge about how our dietary choices affect not only physical wellness but also emotional resilience. With a focus on the gut-brain connection, Jeanaya discusses how what we eat directly influences our mental state, revealing the profound impact of natural remedies.
Throughout the conversation, we explore practical, actionable advice for listeners looking to empower their healing journeys through diet. Jeanaya shares her experiences and the flourishing benefits of using herbs like marshmallow root, showcasing how these natural elements can help restore balance and harmony within the body. The episode doesn’t shy away from discussing the complexities of trauma; we delve into how unaddressed emotional wounds can manifest in physical ailments and how nutrition plays a critical role in recovery.
This engaging discussion intertwines personal stories and professional expertise, making the complex topics accessible and relatable. By promoting a holistic understanding of health, we aim to illuminate paths toward well-being that embrace the interconnected nature of body and mind.
Join us as we redefine self-care, encourage open conversations about healing, and inspire actions toward a healthier, more nurturing lifestyle. Don’t forget to subscribe, share your thoughts, and continue this vital dialogue with us online!
We're back. Yeah, we're back. We're in February. It's really cold, like really really cold, and it's going to just get even colder, so cold like a foot of snow this week.
Speaker 2:Is that right?
Speaker 1:It's like on Tuesday and then it's going to be like the wind chill is going to be like negative 20 or something crazy. Oh my God, it's not. That's like Antarctica, yeah it's too much.
Speaker 1:I know We've gotten so much snow this year, so much snow, but there is some sunshine every so often, so that makes it better. Those dreary days just get me Every year. I have to get out my little sun. It's like a 5x7 kind of thing, but it's like sunlight, and I plug it in right here. Oh, it's like a five by seven kind of thing, but it's like sunlight, and I plug it in right here and oh yeah, it's like a big sun, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I need one of those.
Speaker 1:Cause, you know God, the dreary days, they just go on and on and on and it's really hard to, I don't know. Enjoy the beauty of it all. Hi, I'm Julie.
Speaker 2:And I'm Caleb. Welcome to Nursing U, the podcast where we redefine nursing in today's healthcare landscape. Join Julie and I as we step outside the box on an unconventional healing journey.
Speaker 1:Together, we're diving deep into the heart of nursing, exploring the intricate relationships between caregivers and patients with sincerity and depth.
Speaker 2:Our mission is to create an open and collaborative experience where learning is expansive and fun.
Speaker 1:From the psychological impacts of nursing to the larger implications on the healthcare system. We're sparking conversations that lead to healing and innovation.
Speaker 2:We have serious experience and we won't pull our punches. But we'll also weave in some humor along the way, because we all know laughter is often the best medicine.
Speaker 1:It is, and we won't shy away from any topic, taboo or not, from violence and drugs to family and love, we're tackling it all.
Speaker 2:Our nursing knowledge is our base, but we will be bringing insights from philosophy, religion, science and art to deepen our understanding of the human experience.
Speaker 2:So whether you're a nurse, a healthcare professional, or just someone curious about the world of caregiving. This podcast is for you. One last thing, a quick disclaimer before we dive in. While we're both registered nurses, nothing we discuss here should be taken as medical advice. Always consult with your doctor or a qualified healthcare provider for any medical concerns you may have. The views expressed here are our own and don't necessarily reflect those of our employers or licensing bodies.
Speaker 1:So let's get started on this journey together. Welcome to Nursing U, where every conversation leads to a healthier world.
Speaker 2:So today we have a very special guest, one that I'm very excited to have on. It's a longtime personal friend. Her name is Jenea to have on. It's a longtime personal friend, her name's janea. She's one of the smartest people that I know and I know I know that she'll push back on that, but it's true and she's one of the most talented people that I know. Um, and it's it's kind of funny when we were talking before, julie has been there. You've been there for, like, most of the most traumatic events of my life. Most of them and janea has been kind of on the other side of of that where I hit my rock bottom was very broken and her and her husband and family kind of our, our lives connected shortly after that time and she's been present for the entire healing journey, which is just really it feels like two worlds quite uh, in a beautiful way today that's neat yeah, so, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:so I guess with that we'll bring her up and let her share her story. Hello, hello.
Speaker 3:Yes, it's important to unmute, but hello.
Speaker 2:There you go.
Speaker 3:Welcome, thank you. Thank you, yeah, so introductions. I'm Jenea Jenea Thomas and I am a chef, clinical herbalist, holistic nutritionist and urban farmer, harvey Town Wellness, and that has been a journey from going from a place of wanting clean food to also combining my education in integrative health and my culinary education to be able to help clients meet their wellness goals. So I'm a member of the National Herbalist Guild and the National Association for Nutrition Professionals and, yeah, I do menu consults and herbal consultations and just try to help people on their journey, whatever wellness looks like for them.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. That's an amazing field to be in and I think it's going to become much more integrated into society in the future. Like the near future, yes.
Speaker 2:So so kind of what sparked the idea to invite Jenea on.
Speaker 2:I was at work and and just had a really spontaneous conversation with one of my coworkers and the conversation was kind of around pharmacology and PTSD. This person's significant other is prescribed Adderall, which we've talked about my experience with that and how terrible it was and how it was precisely the wrong drug Like literally the exact wrong thing that they could have prescribed because I had a nervous system issue, not ADHD issue. And so as I was explaining this to my coworker, I started to talk about the work Janae and I have been doing together, which is that she's been consulting me on herbs to herbs to take to help heal my nervous system and it's been. I mean, just in the short time what a month that that she's got me on these herbs I feel so much better Like I feel more grounded. I'm I'm explaining all this to my to my coworker that she leaves and you know I'm sitting there with the conversation. I was like, well, duh, she should just come on the podcast and and share her wisdom. So that's kind of that's how we got here.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, Cause I mean we talk a lot about healing ourselves, healing from within, and and what what you put into your body matters, and so it's, it's completely right, right in our alley. So this is great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I mean, it's like that. That's. That's the idea. Is that nursing you is nursing you, the audience member, and so having her come on and share this knowledge and wisdom is nursing our audience. We're doing the, we're literally doing the thing that we intend to do with this podcast, so it was a perfect fit, yeah, yeah. So, Janaya, what like what? I think I know, but in your own words, what? What are some of the driving forces behind your desire to help?
Speaker 3:Driving forces. Oh, I don't know. I think for me it's just it's it's just who I am Like. The more that I do this, the more I just go like I'm built for this Like and I don't mean that I mean that in like the I don't know the nicest way possible I just I have a connection to herbs. I have a connection to preparing food that is not just, you know, empty calories, something just to make the hunger go away. Instead, I want to prepare meals that build the body.
Speaker 3:My daughter and I were having a conversation because over the weekend I made a treat I do like every week and I made like cinnamon rolls. And my daughter was talking about okay, you know, she was talking about calories. And I said actually, the ones that I make have one third the calories of the ones you'll buy in the grocery store. And she was like what do you mean? And I said that's because the ingredients that I'm using I'm not putting in a bunch of you know oils in there in order to preserve the shelf life. You know, I don't need to put more sugar in there in order to preserve tenderness. I can just make this thing. You guys are going to eat it immediately I can make this thing. It's going to have real you know ingredients in it and it's going to have 200 calories instead of six or eight.
Speaker 3:You know it's not going to be something that's, yeah, it's not going to be something that's going to tip you over for the whole day, and so for me, for me it's about, it's about wellness from within. It's about being connected to things that are natural, to nature, you know, and so that's, that's me, that's who I am.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm just curious. I think it's a. It's an interesting question to like dig deeper into why that's who you are.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I was going to ask where does that come from? At what age did you know or notice that you felt drawn to that?
Speaker 3:I will have to give credit to my own mother and to and to my grandmother, my, my mom and my grandma, my mom, I remember her. When we would get sick, we would always have like when we would get sick, we would always have like she would always pursue like a natural course of action prior to pharmaceuticals Okay, but before we even took, before we even took a cough medicine, if we had a sore throat, gargle with salt water, right To to try, let's let's clean things up in there, let's let's try to draw out any impurities, and then if it's something that really needs an intervention, that's pharmaceutical, then we'll do that if it's absolutely necessary. And she had this book in her library of books. My mom was always a reader, but she had like a natural home remedy book that she would consult and that, even growing up, I got interested in and I wanted to look at ways that I could heal myself.
Speaker 3:My grandmother, she was always a person who she cooked everything from scratch, and so our whole family gathered at her house for holidays and things like that, and I just admired her so much she not only cooked but she grew food. So that's where all the rest comes in. Is that she had a backyard garden full of things that she grew. She would take the things that she grew and she would turn it into food for her family. That fascinated me as a kid and so that's how you get me is.
Speaker 3:It's a combination of my mom and grandmother.
Speaker 1:It is. It's so beautiful and that, just thinking of the, the culture of it, the ancestry keeping that alive, that I mean that it's so beautiful.
Speaker 3:It really is. Yeah, If he would complain about something, I'd say, hey, try this, you know. But I decided to go ahead and return to school and pursue education in herbalism, you know, and to pursue credentials and things like that. So I decided to make it not just something that's a part of me growing up, but also to make it my profession.
Speaker 2:Formalize it.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And what she meant by if I would complain about something. What she's saying is, if I would have an ailment, an upset stomach or some headache or anything, if I was there and I complained about something, she would always just have the remedy about something. She would always just have the remedy. She'd throw something together in the kitchen or or hand me a handful of you know this thing or that thing and tell me to take it, and I'd be like oh, I feel better.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean the remedies and these herbs and things that are growing in the earth have been there for, you know, thousands and thousands of years, and you know it's only been not very long since we've had all these chemical medicines. But you know, like I, my mother was a nurse and so, as nurses you are in the hospital. You, it seems silly that, with all these medicines that we have that can help you, why would you eat like greens and weeds and other things like that? That was my thought, you know, and and a lot I think a lot of nurses feel that way until something clicks and you're like I think these medicines are doing way more harm than good and you, something takes you back to that, the essence of what is in our earth, because the earth has been here for so long and we know that they were using remedies like this so long ago that worked and kept humans alive and and and and healed them. You know.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I mean a lot of what we're seeing and what has been the case with a lot of pharmaceutical drugs is actually a lot of them are based on, are based from herbs, are based from things that grow from the ground. But what happens is they don't understand all of the chemicals within the herbs. So they study and find the ones that like oh, we know what this active ingredient does, so we'll isolate the active ingredient because we know it will affect this particular response in the body or it will affect this particular condition or disease, and so we'll go ahead and isolate that and they leave behind all of the agonists or antagonists and you get this one chemical with the side effects. And so it's one of those things where it's like, when you use the whole herb, you get or a whole.
Speaker 3:We don't even like to use all the time single herbs. We do when it's necessitated. But they will take one herb or one ingredient and they'll use it without anything. That will kind of help the body to be able to assimilate it without bad reactions. And so using whole herbs you see a lot fewer negative impacts. It's a lot gentler on the body. And then also I mean food herbs can be medicine. 've been what I, what I recently talked about, where we're at a we're at a point where spirituality and materialism have an opportunity to kind of come together in a in a beautiful way, in the like.
Speaker 2:Most people think, when you say materialism, that we're talking about the desire to acquire material things. But what materialism means in a scientific, in the scientific realm, is the reductionist process of empirical form, that that you're isolated, taking this herb, and you're going to isolate it down to its active ingredient, and and so you silo that one thing into its, its truest form, and you disregard everything else, without looking at the interconnectedness of the whole thing. And so you know, as I hear Jenea talking, what I'm hearing is this like you're going back to the spiritual element of our physical world. What you're really saying is like, the further out we get I don't have my cell phone, my cell phone is recording me right now.
Speaker 2:Our brains are out here in this cell phone and entirely like, so much of my brain power exists in there. Because I've put it in there, I've manually entered the things that I like and then things that I don't like, and it holds so much information that used to exist purely here for us. And so, in in our experience of of life and modernity, we have this separation that that so much of our lives is happening external to us and it's it's forced, it's pushing us into this kind of self-contained, constricted mind space and and which is? Which is to say that the spiritual element of our physical experience is being disconnected. And what I hear janae is saying in in going back to the holistic approach of growing your own herbs, knowing how they work, you're connecting the spiritual, like you're connecting the spiritual and the physical in a symbiotic way that it was intended to be.
Speaker 3:Well, if you think about it, what I mean? We all learned in biology that we're all made out of cells, right, plants are made of cells. Humans are made of cells, you know, and so there's something important about you know, even as we're eating, that we're eating living things, that we're eating plants that are still alive. You know that we're, we're making sure that we get fruits and vegetables, you know, and and herbs I mean one of the without like, trying to. I'm not, I'm not recommending a cure, but I'm um. One of the things that has been studied is how incorporating herbs with like barbecued meat, like charred broiled meat, actually reduces the, it counteracts the carcinogens that are produced from that charred meat. So if you're adding raw herbs to your charred hamburger, actually bringing down that risk related to related to charred meat.
Speaker 3:And so it's, it's. It's just kind of one of the amazing things in nature that if we are connecting with living things, you know just as much as we when breathing clean air makes a huge difference. You know we are doing something wonderful for our bodies and for our mental health and our and our spiritual health. You know, being able to connect to those things is really important for our wellness.
Speaker 1:So talk more about mental health, Talk, talk more about how your diet and and herbs and things and how how that can relate, Cause there might be a disconnect for people. You know, people think you eat and it just goes in your gut and then it's like for physical, for your body, but but we, but we know that it affects your mind. So can you talk more about that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, because of the gut brain connection. Right, because you know they talk about the channels of connection between the gut and the brain. Like, I think it's only 20% of the connection between the gut and the brain goes from the brain to the gut and the rest of it 70 to 80% goes from the gut to the brain. So, basically, what you're putting in your body, what you're eating, is going to have an enormous impact on your brain, on your mental health. You know, and so we want to be able to get things that are, you know, not causing inflammation.
Speaker 3:Are, you know, eating things that create, cause inflammation in our body? We are going to be, we're going to experience things like brain fog. You know, just just right off the bat, you know, for a person, for a person who might be otherwise healthy, you, if you're not eating things that are high in nutrients, if you're eating things that are, you know, high in trans fats or high in, you know, just, sugar, you might get caught in that loop of. You know I can't focus. You know I'm getting headaches. You know, because of what we're consuming.
Speaker 1:Does it affect things like anxiety and, just you know, like PTSD type things that you're dealing with? But I mean, just talk about how changing the diet might help someone who maybe they want to get off their antidepressant or you know something like that, like that, or or they're thinking about taking something because they just they, you know they're they're having lots of mood swings or depression or or even anxiety from, you know, stress or whatever.
Speaker 3:Right. So, without trying to recommend something that would be considered a like one size fits all, because all of our bodies respond differently to trauma and to and to the after effects of trauma, the mental health impacts of trauma One of the first things that we want to do, you know, with regard to PTSD and mental or anxiety things like that, is really focus on what are we putting in our stomachs? Right, and because it's kind of a loop. Right, and because it's kind of a. It's kind of a loop. Trauma can cause issues with digestion and poor diet can cause you to have issues with processing trauma, right. So so we have to break that cycle, right, and the easiest way, the first place to break that cycle is with our diet. And so, once again, you know, it's like that, if there is a one size fits all thing, it is making sure that we are getting nutrient rich foods.
Speaker 3:So we want foods, we want colorful vegetables, we want to make sure that we're eating good protein. You know if you can eat meats and nuts. You know if your body can tolerate those things. We want to eat, those things that are full of vitamins. We want to make sure that we're getting, you know, broccoli, cocu 10, cauliflower fish lentils. We want to make sure that eggs, tuna, things that are going to provide our bodies with the nutrients that it needs to do that mental processing and try to reduce, try to reduce our sugar intake. It's hard because you know, we get addicted to it right, because we need, especially if we live a really busy, high demand life. You know it gets hard to reduce that sugar. But we want to go ahead and try to increase the protein so that we're feeling more satiated and less hungry all the time, because eating sugar sort of also becomes a loop where we eat the sweets and then we become hungry again and we want more sweets and so, yeah, what else?
Speaker 2:Talk about marshmallow root and the gut lining. Talk about marshmallow root and the gut lining.
Speaker 3:Yes, marshmallow root is amazing and helps to coat the gut lining in order for us to be able to the digestive tract. It's a. We prepare it in a cold preparation in order to bring out the mucinologist properties. It creates kind of like a gel and you drink it and sips. You know if you can tolerate it and it helps to coat and to heal the lining of your gut so that you are protecting and rebuilding your digestive tract. Another one that I like for digestion, especially when people are having trouble with heartburn, gastric reflux, that sort of thing is a calendula. Calendula is one that can help with the once heartburn is already going, once it's already kind of it's already torturing you, it can help to reduce that stomach acid and begin to heal some of that damage that's taking place in the digestive tract.
Speaker 2:Interesting Very.
Speaker 1:Go ahead.
Speaker 3:I was just going to say that the gut is really, really important and healing. The gut is really important when it comes to PTSD and the effects of trauma and because, as you know, like when we're under a lot of stress and pressure, it can actually slow down our digestive, our digestion, and it can be more difficult for our bodies to actually process the nutrients that we need. And so, just as we, you know, depending on where a person is in their healing journey really determines, like, what approach I would take. For instance, you know, whether or not I'm going to say, okay, we're going to leave your stomach alone for right now. We're just going to say, you know, nervous system, only nervous system. Or if we're going to say, okay, you know, let's go ahead and try to tackle. You know what's going on in the gut, it really just depends on how well an individual can tolerate a certain approach.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and is the is the marshmallow root?
Speaker 2:is there, like you talked about, cooking it? Is there more accessible form that, like our audience, could pick up and just take without the effort?
Speaker 3:So I would recommend marshmallow root only from a reputable source to make sure that it's not contaminated with any other ingredients or herbs that can potentially cause a reaction of some sort, just depending on each individual. But again, you know it's something typically like. I order it from a supplier in California and there are locally here in Kansas City there are a few herb shops that people might be able to walk into and pick up marshmallow root. It's also something you know. If people are interested, it's something that you can grow and you know you can, you can have on hand in your garden and that you know you can harvest and dry yourself.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah, I'm thinking about. You know how people go to the doctor for ailments. You know something's wrong with my stomach, something's wrong with my I don't feel good, something's wrong with my head, and you go to the doctor and then the doctor prescribes a medication. And so really, having having someone who has education and a background in you know prescribing or recommend sorry, recommending herbs, would be best, otherwise you're, you know, you really need to study so that you know what's what's best to use. So I guess what I'm trying to say is, you know, finding someone like you who has the experience, the knowledge to, to guide someone you know, to understand what their needs are, so that you can recommend the the the best thing for them is, is important, I think, rather than trying to just pick from a book like symptom this or this or this to just pick from a book like symptom this or this or this.
Speaker 3:You know, yes, absolutely. And that's actually in herbalism. We don't match an herb to a symptom. We don't prescribe because we don't, we don't treat, we don't treat conditions. We recommend herbs for a person because in herbalism, we don't look at you and as your condition, we look at you as a person.
Speaker 3:You, you have a particular, a particular personality. We look at people as being. Are you hot as a person? Are you warm, are you cold? Are you are? Do you have like, does it seem like your body could use more moisture? And you know, do you look? Yeah, Are you? Do you have a? Do you have a tightness about you? You know, do you have? You know, we, we look at all of those things as a person and along with the symptoms that you're complaining of. Because if I because there's some herbs that if I were to recommend, or just go to a book and go, hey, you know, oh, this herb is good for this particular ailment If we don't understand all of the properties of that herb, like that herb is hot and dry, that herb is going to warm you up and it's going to dry you out.
Speaker 3:Well, if you're already a dry person, that's going to be horrible. It's going to it's you're going to have a negative experience and you're going to be like yeah, I'm not into that herb stuff you know right. Right Wrong one for you.
Speaker 3:And so it is something that we, we study and we do continuing education, just like, just like many people who are in, you know, the wellness field that we, we, we do have to specialize in it, and a lot of people who are in herbalism, herbalism or who are herbalists, specialize only in certain areas. So there are some people specialize in women's health. There are some people who specialize in men's health and some people who specialize in reproductive health or the immune system.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So it's because there are so many different herbs, you know, people become kind of experts in those particular areas.
Speaker 2:Are you focusing on any particular area?
Speaker 3:You know, I feel like an area has picked me.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:And I think that's and and, and it is specifically in the area of grief and trauma, and I feel that the people who have and basically kind of the results of grief and trauma, because the effects of it, the after effects, manifest in so many different ways, right, I do see a lot of things that happen with the gut and with digestion, with anxiety, with lack of sleep, not being able to sleep or stay asleep, and I mean that can also be a loop, because if you have issues with your digestion, you're not going to sleep.
Speaker 3:Well, if your stomach is just doing weird things all night, right, and so, and so, like I said, I feel like this area has picked me because of the clients that have approached me and kind of the world we live in right now, right, where there's just kind of so many different things happening. People are under a lot of stress, they're having their jobs pulled out from under them, they're, you know, dealing with the loss of loved ones. It's just things are kind of really, really intense right now in the world, and so, yeah, yeah, agreed.
Speaker 2:So I want to. I do want to clarify I I don't know that I heard, like I heard you talk about the mucilin, mucil, mucil, logicologic effect of marshmallow root and I don't know that we fully tied that piece together. Because when you told me that at your house that day or no we were on a on our consult on zoom, you said that the marshmallow root increases the mucosal lining in the gut, that the, the, it restores. So part of trauma is that when you have trauma that gut lining gets decreased, the mucosal, the mucus lining that coats damaged, it gets damaged, and so the marshmallow root increases the production of mucus in that mucosal lining which begins to help heal that gut so that it can start remaking the connections or reconnecting itself.
Speaker 2:So I just wanted to clarify that piece and let you talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so marshmallow it does.
Speaker 3:It increases the moisture in the body and it helps to heal those irritated tissues in in the gut, so as, as you're digesting and all of that it it definitely increases the mucus production big time, like even marshmallow leaf.
Speaker 3:I gave it to there's like a cough going around or something like that, and I gave it to my husband and I gave it to him for like one day and I could hear, like the mucus production. I was like, okay, you don't need any more because we don't need any more mucus, right, and so the I mean that's basically what it does. So when you, our body and our digestive tract needs that mucus in order to protect the lining right, in order to protect those tissues, and so the marshmallow is just one herb in an arsenal, basically, of herbs that are used to help with digestion, based on a person's specific needs. So if they have a situation that warrants help with coating the stomach and coating the digestive tract to help produce more mucus, then we are looking at marshmallow root to help them kind of coat and heal those damaged tissues and produce more mucus.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we've done an entire episode talking about the importance of the microbiome in the gut, and so it just Julie and I.
Speaker 2:In that episode we talk about fecal transplants, where, when someone gets really sick with a C diff infection or something like that, we will do fecal transplants. Where, when someone gets really sick with a C diff infection or something like that, we will do fecal transplants to help regenerate the microbiome. And and I just like as I as I think about the process of that specifically C diff and how those spores are are basically creating these spikes that just come out and they just lacerate the whole thing. If we as a healthcare system adopted some of these practices and some of this practical wisdom of herbalism, that marshmallow root could provide that extra layer of protection within that gut lining so that maybe the body has a chance to wash the C diff out. If that mucosal lining is insulated and protected with mucus, that infection has less of a chance to take deep hold. If that mucosal lining is washed away, it's just going to have direct access to that tissue and it's just going to start cutting.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, because you know, a lot of C diff happens after you've been on high dose antibiotics, and so those antibiotics I guess I don't know exactly how it works, but it tears up the gut, that's just what I'm going to call it, and so it. It leaves it vulnerable to this overproduction.
Speaker 2:Well, what it? What it does is because we're using broad spectrum antibiotics, especially in the setting that we're in. We're we're hitting everything so that entire flora is destroyed, so all of the protection. I don't know in any detail, but I would imagine that that bacteria is Actually. The way that I would think of it is that it's kind of like the kombucha pearls, oh, like the mucosa, and the bacteria are creating this ecosystem, Like do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. And so when those bacteria die, that ecosystem gets destroyed, that's destroyed.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and there's a similarity there between actually broad spectrum antibiotics and trauma.
Speaker 3:So basically the same thing that happens as a result of using antibiotics can also happen as a result of trauma, which really sucks because you can have so much of an impact in the gut from experiencing trauma that your microbiome becomes affected.
Speaker 3:It's called dysbiosis and you can actually become more susceptible to C, diff and to a bunch. I mean it's hard, it's hard to feel the motivation, it's hard to it's hard to even feel the ability to focus, to be able to want to focus on ourselves and on our own health, being able to say, hey, you know I don't want to let this get to a point that you know I'm hospitalized or that I'm in a place where you know I need to be on pharmaceutical drugs or that sort of thing to be able to really sort of pamper the gut for lack of a better word so that, if nothing else, we are protecting the lining of our gut, as you're talking about Caleb, are protecting the lining of our gut, as you're talking about Caleb, so that we're able to protect our and prevent permeability. We don't want things getting through and so it's, it's, it's a huge.
Speaker 1:It's a huge thing yeah, so what is it? Oh, I was gonna say, what is it about trauma that that has the impact on the lining? Is it like one thing I would think, is it increased cortisol? It is it. Is it a chemical reaction? Or how could you explain that like you know? For so someone can tie like how does that happen?
Speaker 3:that's a really good question, and the best way that I can explain it is that what epigeneticists are telling us is that when we experience trauma, it happens on a cellular, like our bodies experience it right, it's not just the mind, our bodies experience it and it's down to a cellular level and so it's throwing all kinds of different things out of balance.
Speaker 3:And we're, and because of that, because our nervous system is impacted, it it goes into, like they talk about the fight flight, the fight or flight mode, but then there's also a freeze, that there's a theory that there's also a freeze, and when we get into that place of being frozen, our body starts to shut down all these processes. And they talk about how, like in fight or flight, our body wants to burn fat, our body will will say Nope, we need the energy because we're going to fight. Right In freeze, our body shuts down the process of burning fat and actually starts to store it.
Speaker 3:Right, you know we get into this hyper, hyper, overstimulated place of where your brain says, nope, I can't, I just can't, and things begin to shut down.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah.
Speaker 3:If that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah so I mean it's, it's. There's probably hundreds of processes that yeah so it's not just directly, it's not just die, it's not a direct thing, it's lots of processes, things shut down because our body is so complicated. And really you saying that it happens on a cellular level just makes sense, because the cells are the basis of everything that's within our body.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, the like trauma is considered an allostasis or an allostatic load. So we are. Yeah, I've never heard that word.
Speaker 2:I have heard that before, but it's been a while, yeah, I have heard that before, but it's been a while.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so we're. You know we can end up having you know, as a result of trauma like hypertension, high blood pressure, immune dysfunction, like all of these things can start to just we get taken out of homeostasis. That's what happens. Like it makes. I would love for it to make more sense, but it's just. What we're observing is that our body, once we're in a period of prolonged stress, we're under the impacts of prolonged trauma, we become more susceptible to disease.
Speaker 1:I think when I was at the height of my stress in COVID and just the years leading up to that, I mean I had to completely. I had had hypertension since I had my kids because I had hypertension with pregnancy and so I'd been on some low dose medication. But when, when I was at the height of all that I will, first of all, I felt like I was going to die like my body, I physically felt like I was dying, and I went to the doctor. I had to like almost triple my blood pressure medication. I had to completely change my antidepressant medication. I had to completely change my antidepressant and go to the highest dose of that, my thyroid, which I had been and I think thyroid gets whack because we work night shift, but either way, I had been on some thyroid medication.
Speaker 1:It had been very stable, but up until that point I couldn't get it stable. I was changing doses, like every time I did labs, and so you know if you knew now which you know if I wish I would have known, but I didn't. So I went to the doctor and so then my medication list, you know, went five more deep, and it's been since about 2022 that I've been working on fixing things and kind of reversing that to try to get off some of that medication, but that it makes perfect sense of why stress and traumatic trauma and and just not big traumas but also just the little T trauma that happens a lot of times to nurses every shift you're working, a lot of times to nurses every shift you're working, and especially if you're working at night, you know your sleep is very whack, and during COVID I mean all of it is just so impactful on your physical body.
Speaker 2:So yeah, so I kind of want to go on a little thought journey. I have some, so I kind of want to go on a little thought journey. Jenea's husband is the one that calls it Caleb's mental workshop.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay.
Speaker 2:He's the one that gave it the term. Yeah, so what?
Speaker 3:did you going to say and just adding to the whole trauma impacting us at the cellular level that our cells actually have like a? Well, we know already, with our immune system and all of that, our cells have this danger response and that prolonged trauma can actually impact that? And they say that it can potentially impact our mitochondria. So you were asking the question about, and epigeneticists have said that, and they say that it can potentially impact our mitochondria. So you were asking the question about, and epigeneticists have said that now they're seeing our in. They study specifically in men that men who had experienced trauma during their lives, they, their sperm, was passing on signs of that trauma. Yes, so it they're. It's flipping on different genes because the body is responding to that trauma and so different, different genes are being switched on and switched off as a result of that trauma and it's being passed on.
Speaker 3:So that whole generational trauma thing is there's and they're starting to find a sign.
Speaker 1:I totally believe that and I know there's many, many research studies done on that. But even just in my family, my grandmother and my mother and her mother so great grandma had a lot of trauma and the birth of my mom was traumatic and the pregnancy was traumatic, and so I feel like I've been kind of that generation breaker, you know. So I'm healing, I'm acknowledging and doing some of that and so I thought it would stop with me. But honestly, like my kids, my girls, they have some anxiety, they have like gut issues and I thought I've done so good.
Speaker 1:You had a, you had a beautiful home. We never moved. Your parents are married, you know all of the things, but it it, it has nothing to do with that it. I really believe that it it is passed down Now. Their lives are nothing like what I experienced and we'll hopefully pass on less and less, but it's, it's so real, it's so real. So even if you're like I mean I haven't really had that bad of a life, but God, my anxiety is nuts it easily could be passed down from multiple generations.
Speaker 3:Right, yeah, wow, yeah. And so, for that reason, we start to look at the nervous system, we start to look at how can we, just how can we? And the wonderful thing about plants is that we don't intend for you to be able to say like, okay, we're, let's, are we? Let's? Learn how to adapt? Right, because that's what our body does.
Speaker 3:Like the trauma response is our body trying to protect itself. Yeah, it's our body saying whoa, that was too much, or whoa, that was too fast. You know, I need to go into self-protection mode. And so our body learns how to be resilient. It's just, it's just our body saying there's something out there that's dangerous and I need to, I need to stay away from it, I need to do the things to protect myself. And so our body is very resilient, our body can adapt. And so, using the herbs is how can we teach our body new ways to adapt? Or when it comes to losing sleep as a result of trauma, we, you know, one of the go-to herbs is chamomile, because it's very gentle and as long as you don't have an allergy, but after a while, a person's what is it called there? Your?
Speaker 1:circadian rhythm.
Speaker 3:Thank you. Circadian rhythm should get back into a normal, normal state and the body should start to be like oh you know, as the sun starts to go down, you should start to feel that that tiredness Cause your bodyness because your body is used to it.
Speaker 3:Now, just like for those of us and I think we're all parents your body can learn to be wakeful in the middle of the night. Because of having a small infant, you can start to have that pattern of I'm waking up at 3 am and I don't know why the baby sleeps now. But your body learned to do that. It became a learned, learned response. So what we want to do is teach the body how to cope in a new way. We don't need to be on guard all the time. Let's bring it down and learn this new. Let's make a new connection.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's teaching. It's teaching your body, which takes time. It's teaching it new habits, and it doesn't happen overnight. That's big. What were you wanting to think about, caleb?
Speaker 2:connecting the idea that 20% of the signal is going from the brain to the gut, and how much of it's going from the gut to the brain and how is it getting there? So what is the connection between the nervous? Because the message isn't getting to the brain any other way than the nervous system. It has to be through the nervous system. And so how are these things impacting that? Because it's it. You know, when you think about the nervous system, it's just an electrical conduction, you're just you're conducting electricity. How is that? How, how is the information that is being sent from these herbs or whatever medicine or whatever? How is it? How is it being communicated? I guess I, I don't. I don't fully understand that, but the the the long and short of the thought experiment that I was, that I was thinking about, is kind of goes back to the idea of DNA, which we got there through the, the epigenetics of the traumatized man handing over a seed that is epigenetically coded to pass along the awareness of the threat. When the two strands of the DNA, when the egg and the seed, get together, it creates this homing beacon to the molecular world. I've said this on the podcast before that this thing becomes a homing beacon to receive. The entire thing is about receiving, and so, as this child or any organism, it's a plant. The plant is telling the dirt send me this molecule in this amount and this one in that amount, and I need, I need, I need, I need. And so the thing that getting down to the thing, like using my personal experience and journey as kind of a roadmap for this that as I experienced trauma, I became more self-centered, focused on what I needed, and instead of like and and I've always said this I became incapable of taking care of anyone else, including myself, and so one of the things that I recognize, so this nervous system from the very beginning, is about receiving. All of these electrical conductions are receptors. We're receiving all of this information, good and bad, all the time. So there's this like the nuance of a human being. That's the passive, receptive aspect, and then being human is the giving part. Like one of the things I found that has been that took me out of that self-focused place was serving others, doing things for other people, like being human. Serving others, doing things for other people, like being human instead of being a, instead of just a human being. I became someone who was being human and that also healed the nervous system, like giving actually is receiving in in the healthy way. So that was that was kind of the thought experiment.
Speaker 2:Summed up, I think if, if you're, if, if our audience members are out there, that are, are, are experiencing that, recognize, like there was a part of me that, like I knew that I was being selfish, I knew that, like I, I I had this sense of entitlement that I had to to protect myself, which is a false thought.
Speaker 2:I mean there is, there is an element of that. You do have to protect yourself. You do have to put up guards and say, no, you can't come in here. No, I don't want, I don't want this in my life, and there is a healthy element to that. But when it becomes, when it becomes the driving force of your life, where you then isolate, like when it becomes the driving force of your life, where you then isolate, like like our other friend that lost her life, that we referenced throughout this, she isolated, she became completely, she just like imploded within herself, as did I and the way. So what I'm saying is to the nurses out there that are, that are in that place, the way out of that is doing things for other people.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Giving yeah, yeah. So, I'm just trying to.
Speaker 1:Even small doses, yeah.
Speaker 3:But even down to the cellular level, right, if the cells are protecting themselves, your whole body was saying I need to protect myself, I've experienced trauma I need to worry about me and so that's what I'm listening to you and I'm going yeah, that's, that's a natural response to experiencing trauma. Your whole body is saying Nope.
Speaker 1:Yeah, too much.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's like a robot who has too much input. There's too much input, he cannot take it, and you see, whether it's a cartoon or whatever you see on tv, and just explodes. Yeah, I mean like springs go everywhere. It cannot. Don't know why we do that to ourselves. I think it's we're just taught that that's the way it should be. But it doesn't have to be that way. It's just so hard.
Speaker 3:I wonder, like in our as you're asking that question in our society, many of us don't know how to respond to trauma, how to respond to our own body's experience of it. Right things that are happening in their body or in their mind or in their emotions are a result of trauma and that they need to do certain things in order to heal themselves. They may not recognize that, hey, I'm suffering, I'm suffering here. And it's not just something that I'm just supposed to ignore and proceed as normal, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah well, we're not very connected to our bodies, we're not taught the connection to our bodies. We're very separate. You know the mind is separate. I mean just thinking about being in school for so long nobody, no teacher, no, nothing is taught about. How does your body feel? I see that you're really upset and you're angry. Are you feeling that in your stomach? Are you feeling that in your stomach? Are you feeling that in your you know what I mean? Put your hand where, where you feel.
Speaker 1:Nothing is ever taught. That way it's, it's so separate and you're basically just taught to like, don't act like that. And because that's not appropriate, you know it's there's no body brain connection being taught and so. So sometimes you see these little things about teachers and preschools and things doing some meditation or mindfulness. It's so beautiful to teach a child that, because they're so close to already knowing that, that it's not a hard concept for them to grasp, that it's not a hard concept for them to grasp, and so if you can nurture that as they grow older, I mean they're going to take that information just like all the other information that they learn at school. They'll take that into their adulthood.
Speaker 1:I mean just some of these women who, or even girls who've been pregnant, who don't know they're pregnant till they're nine months pregnant. That's because they have no connection to their body, because they've been either traumatized, trim their hair and you know, take a bath and you know clean it, and just it's not taught. But I feel like, don't you feel like a shift is happening a little bit? But I feel like don't you feel like a shift is happening a little bit? You know, I feel like there's more information out there and people are kind of waking up to the fact that pharmaceuticals and that is not the only way there's they're looking for more.
Speaker 3:I definitely feel that way. I think that a lot of people are looking for more, that a lot of people are looking for more. They're looking for alternatives, because there's, you know, when you can't sleep at night and you know you're on Ambien or you're on some other pharmaceutical drug to try to, you know, tackle that, but then you know you're waking up with the side effects and things. People, I think, get tired of the cycle and they recognize that there's something you know there must be something else that we can do and things. People, I think, get tired of the cycle and they recognize that there's something you know there must be something else that we can do.
Speaker 3:There must be some alternative and they become more open-minded to search for things that can, things that can help them feel like themselves again. Because you know there's when you're kind of inundated with so many heavy drugs, you know you don't feel like yourself anymore, right, and that that can get old.
Speaker 2:That can get old pretty fast I mean, I think I think we are all searching, like I think we we talk a lot on the podcast about mistrust of the medical sciences and how. You know how that has led to so much conspiratorial thinking and and so, like the I, this idea that we're all searching for for deep meaning in our lives. That search can go in two directions you can search in a positive way and you can search in a negative way and and and create, and you create those neural pathways of how you search and what you search for. And it's bringing up for me, the, the idea, like hospitals are not designed for health, they're designed to deliver technology to. That is that? Deliver technology to? That is that intervenes with, with the breakdown of the body. Right, it's, it's not. A hospital is like, literally I've said this for 20 years they measure the rooms with micrometers, meaning that when, when you go into a hospital room, it's this very sterile space and the bed literally, like, literally, like it's this tight to the wall, like you have to get it lined up just right because they measured it with a micrometer. You know it's, the tolerances are so tight. It's not about, it's not about creating a healing environment, it's about delivering technology, and if we so, part of this idea comes from a podcast called on the table, and I can't remember the name of the doctor, but he is the table, and I can't remember the name of the doctor, but he is.
Speaker 2:He was, I think. He has a PhD in philosophy and also became a medical doctor and a board certified neurologist and he's studying. He's studying the the impact of aesthetics on our nervous systems, and so in this conversation that I listened to, they're talking about, they're talking a little bit about that, and but the idea like the big idea that I'm bringing from that conversation just for the point of this point, is that the hospitals are not designed for healing. They're designed as a delivery system for technology to create healing, but the environment is not about healing, and so, as I'm listening to Jenea hand over all of her wisdom, one thought that has come to me numerous times throughout this is that look at the food delivery system of the hospital.
Speaker 2:It's atrocious, it's unbelievable. So if we had someone like Jenea, who was a skilled chef, who had the wisdom of herbalism, who understood the healing properties of how those things are interconnected, and we took a person like janea into a hospital for her to design the kitchen and the food delivery system. How much healing could actually happen from that? Like if we actually looked at the hospital as a as a healing center versus a delivery system for technology, the trust, the trust in a hospital like that would be so much like like that's that's the point that I'm getting at is like how can you trust a hospital that is delivering food that is killing?
Speaker 1:you. I know God, it's terrible. But you know the thing with that is you, if you're actually healing people so they don't require medication, then they're never coming back Like they're never they're not going to be patients, they're not going to need surgery, they're not going to need treatments and it's not a money-making business, and I think that's in my mind. It always draws a line in the sand for me, because the the payment system, the, the money-making system of health care is keeping people sick.
Speaker 2:I mean it, just yes yes, but it's not working and that's been my, it's definitely making them money it's definitely making the money, but it's not working and the and the trust factor is is I. I don't think that it's sustainable long-term.
Speaker 1:I don't like they're going to have to figure that out.
Speaker 2:What a beautiful healing center.
Speaker 1:Can you even imagine like if you had a, if you had a hospital or just call it a healing center, that was beautifully aesthetic, beautiful, like something in your mind off of a?
Speaker 2:Not measured with a micrometer.
Speaker 1:Right and you had beautiful bedding sheets that were healing, grounding mats, meditation, you know, and and the diet and the food and the herbs that could heal you, like what. It would be amazing you couldn't have insurance. Insurance you insured, no one would buy into that, you know what I mean? Like it wouldn't. That's probably why they're not there, because that would be a very expensive. I mean. I think there are smaller, like wellness clinics, you know, that are very similar in a smaller aspect of that. But how amazing would it be to have, instead of a big giant. I mean, in Kansas city alone, what do we have like nine big medical centers. I mean there's a lot.
Speaker 1:And if we just had one large healing center that people could go to and actually be healed and feel better and sleep better and eat better and not have to take medication. And it's like a dream.
Speaker 3:Well, I mean, there are certain clinics that are available, like that, but they're usually cash pay, you know and our and our medical system is set up in a way to number one, deliver emergency medicine which herbalists.
Speaker 3:We don't do surgery but um, so they're set up to deliver emergency medicine which you know can, can, can save lives. But in terms of like a one size fits all, like if you have these symptoms, we're just going to write you one prescription and you know, kind of send you away, sort of thing. You know that that seems like what our healthcare system is set up, like in the United States. It seems like what it's set up for, I should say, is to be able to kind of handle the most amount of amount of patients with the least amount of, you know, input in terms of like time. You know, because you know the average patient gets what like 15 to 20 minutes with their physician, you know, as they're in a visit, and so you know we're set up for that. We're set up for that. What is it called? Like assembly line medicine, so that we can just kind of keep the wheels turning and everybody can see someone you know and get something you know and it be covered by our health insurance system the way that it is.
Speaker 2:I mean quite literally, health insurance CEOs are dying because of the corruption I mean, you know, at some point it's definitely breaking down.
Speaker 1:You can feel it. You can feel it, you can see it. You can see people waking up to realize what they have been offered all of these years and what they have not been offered. You know people are realizing. You know that seems wrong, you know Wow, yeah. So how can people get ahold of you? Do you have a website or do you? How do you get clients and how can people work with you?
Speaker 3:So, yes, I have a website, it is harvytownwellnesscom, and they can reach out to me there or email me at info at harvytownwellnesscom, and they can reach me there. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Now talk more about your garden over in Missouri.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah. So what we are setting up in Missouri we actually are restarting what we have been doing in the past. We have about a two-acre urban farm and we have a fenced garden that is about a thousand square feet, and then we have a high tunnel, which is about a thousand square feet and more space now that we are turning into a garden that is focused on grief and trauma. So we're growing herbs that help a person be able to experience, essentially, aromatherapy as they walk through the gardens, so that they're able to kind of take some time away from the demands of life, to be able to take some time to breathe and also get herbs and things like that in our garden. So this is over. It's near Swope Park on the Missouri side.
Speaker 1:It sounds beautiful and amazing.
Speaker 3:It is. It is a really beautiful property. It's amazing, yeah. So yeah, caleb, I wanted to tell you that you were talking about the nervous system and how the gut was communicating with the brain, and it is the there's part of our nervous system is in our gut. It's so the yeah, so it's that that communication is happening and part of it is in the submucosal is in our gut. It's so the yeah, so it's that that communication is happening and part of it is in the submucosal lining of the gut.
Speaker 3:So, protecting that mucosa and coding our gut and making sure that our gut is not permeable is essential to our brain, the health of our brain.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, Julie and I, working in the ICU, we, you know, doing those fecal transplants. I've always I've said it on here before, I'll say it again, I'll always say it it was. It was like watching a miracle happen in real time. You, you would see these people that their faces were so sunken in, their eye sockets were so deep, deeply set in their in their face. Their eye sockets were so deep, deeply set in their in their face and they just looked dead and their family members.
Speaker 2:We were, we were part of, we were part of a very large I believe it was CDC clinical study on using fecal transplants to treat C diff in the in the worst cases. So we were doing this to people that were literally dying Wow, and we would administer it and I can remember coming back the next day and their color was better, their face was less sunken in, they were alive again. The transformation was radical and it was fast and it left such a profound impact on my, my memory and my mind that they're like there's no one that could convince me that these things are not true. It's like this is the true thing. Yeah that's.
Speaker 3:It's amazing that you got to witness that especially. You know the before and after part of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's pretty amazing yeah, and which is also why, like the marshmallow thing really popped for me. The marshmallow root thing just makes so much sense to me because of that experience, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 1:This has been great.
Speaker 2:I knew it would be great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, it's so great Cause it's so, so right along the lines with our what we, how we feel about our bodies and our lives and trauma and and everything, and exactly what we talk about on this podcast, you know it's nursing you, nursing our bodies, nursing yourself and just caring, caring for and the gut is, I mean, a huge part of it that a lot of people don't realize. So your wisdom is well received.
Speaker 3:That's great. One thing I would say is the one last thing I would recommend is avoid packaged food if nothing else. Just stay off that stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that, yeah. We hope you've enjoyed this week's episode.
Speaker 1:Remember, the conversation doesn't end here.
Speaker 2:Keep the dialogue going by connecting with us on social media posted in the links below or by visiting our website.
Speaker 1:Together, let's continue to redefine nursing and shape a brighter future for those we care for. Until next time, take care, stay curious and keep nurturing those connections.
Speaker 2:And don't forget to be kind to yourself.